92-year old Navy veteran on boat delivery.

[Snowind]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

No offense intended, but I’d leave her at home before I would my Father, you have decades left with her, your Father maybe not.
Take him for a few days, short hops, then have a plan on getting him home before you go offshore for a long stretch.
Your beginning to cruise right? That isn’t done to a schedule, if you have one, find a way to do different, maybe leave the boat in Brunswick Ga, well protected and usually far enough North for Insurence, then finish the delivery later.

I've been married once before and I'd very much like for this relationship to last. I actually agree with her feeling on the matter. This is a bucket list thing for dad and bringing coming along is all about doing something for him.

We may alter plans and include multiple stops instead of making one long hop up the coast.

K

[coastalexplorer]

I completely agree with Gord May, and a64 pilot. life is about the places you go and the memories of the adventure. once parents have gone memories are all you have left.


You have written that "its a bucket list thing for him" well isn't this what a 'bucket list' is all about? Do it while you're alive or die trying? and be aware of being alive during the attempt. If he can sit in a chair at home and even drive a car. He can sit down on a catamaran. my bet would be that he will be very alive at the end of the voyage.

[Capt Phil]

I had to quit sailing at age 67 y/o and moved to power( DeFever 54) after trying to douse a main on a ketch rig alone returning from Mexico.It was almost too much for me and rather than swallow the hook after a lifetime of sailing, I switched to power that extended our time on the water by several years. Now coming up on 78 y/o and had to give up the water and life aboard altogether. So everyone is different.
I would ask myself and my father ‘why do you want to go?’ Is it a death wish? Do you realize what he would be putting you and your spouse through? Worry, out of reach of medical help for extended periods of time? Perhaps when faced with the realities of off shore passage making, he will realize the selfishness of his wanting to go along.
It is not an easy decision and as skipper it is your responsibility to ensure your crew/family member is fit and ready to contribute when things go sideways.
As a delivery skipper for many years, I had to make that call and have turned down jobs where the owner wished to accompany us on a delivery of his vessel. ( mainly because he was a dick!). Once I had to turn down an owner because physically he wasn’t up to the rigors of off shore passage making. He found another deliver skipper who delivered the boat with the owner aboard and in talking with the delivery Captain afterwards, he told me had he known about my concerns he never would have accepted the delivery!
It will never be cut and dried... but best to clear the air now than have a medical emergency out there.
My suggestion would be to have a chat with old Dad now and not put it off any longer.
Good Luck, Phil

[Snowind]

Originally Posted by bensolomon

Here goes:
Richard 5...loved the Kobiashi Maru reference...change the parameters of the test or trip in this case.

I put those first two paragraphs to give context to my response...I understand your predicament. If this is a boat that you and your wife are looking to start a journey on, I could certainly understand your wife's desire to have the two of you on board with a captain to get used to the boat and to get as much instruction as possible from the captain without being distracted by someone else. In this case, "someone else" just happens to be your dad.

The real decision is going to be a philosophic one regarding a new boat and new-ish life afloat with your wife versus her perception of this new start with you and your father aboard. Not knowing the circumstance, is it possible that your wife feels that she may have been taking care of your dad for all these years and she just wants a week alone with her husband on your new boat?

My apologies for the verbose response, but you asked a very complicated question.

Ben

The first paragraph sums up exactly how my wife feels. This is going to be or new home and we plan on doing extended world cruising in the next couple of years.

[Snowind]

Originally Posted by tmccaffery

I a) own a current Leopard 40, b) have a 90 y/o father and c) am a Navy veteran. All other things being equal I think that you really need to consider this overall mobility, especially going up and down the ladder (stairs) from the main salon to the pontoons. Further, the heads are really not designed for people whose mobility is impaired even slightly. Finally, while I don't know about your father, my father while still very mobile for his age, is also clearly frail. My biggest concern would be your father falling, breaking a bone and thereby creating a serious medical emergency with a geriatric patient.

That's our main concern as well. He feels his experience from years ago will get him through this.
Take him day sailing on the Chesapeake otherwise, he will be endangering the mission which is to bring the boat quickly and safely to the Chesapeake.


BTW, what are the circumstances that necessitate getting the boat into the Chesapeake so quick -- insurance? That is solvable.

While I certainly understand that schedules and cruising don't mis very well, I haven't retired yet and time away from works complicates the delivery.... also insurance while in hurricane season.

[bumpman]

My Mom is 94+ and as mentally active as a 60-yr-old, but one bad fall and it might be IT. What would your doctor say about taking your dad along? His advice might settle everything.

[Snowind]

Originally Posted by hatteras53

K.I.S.S.


Keep It Simple Shipmates !


Come up the I.C.W. so you will be nearby to a port or other piece of land in case of an emergency. Assume you have an inflatable. This is really a not a big deal shipmates. Make the trip up the ditch one of a lifetime for all 3 of you. Give your wife and father enough space to do whatever they think is best including not deciding to come at the last minute. If your wife decides not to come, then bring someone else to crew with you. People die on boats and the land every day. Better it be done while doing something you really love ! Again, K.I.S.S. All will work out for the best for everyone.

Hops up the ICW are a last ditch option for us. I want to sail this boat in the ocean and besides, some friends of ours just brought their Leopard 40 up to the Chesapeake this last weekend. They managed to hit one of the bridge lights going under a bridge in NC. Luckily no apparent damage to their boat but they did break the light having below the bridge!

K

[Snowind]

Originally Posted by jmschmidt

Take him over to Grand Bahama for a few days. See how it works out. He can fly home for there easily. Let him make the decision. Good Luck.

I wish we had time to do that. Or better yet, down to Belize!

[Capt Phil]

Bumpmanhas a great suggestion! Have a consult with his doc, your wife and you... front load the doc about your concerns and let old dad make the decision...
Phil

[contrail]

well, this is one of the most thoughtful threads I have ever read on CF. I was going to give lots of thoughtful advice, but realized that I have little to add that hasn't been said, already. But I do have one suggestion, and one real-life story. The suggestion is pretty simple. Ask each of your wife, and your dad, but certainly your wife, to read through the whole thread. That way, you aren't making any observations; rather, we are. Additionally, since the recommendations vary so widely, you won't be pressuring anyone to do anything other than think the whole thing over, from several different perspectives. The, sit down and talk. And, remember, happy wife equals a happy life. Your father should "get" that, but it's a guess what your wife will wind up wanting, when she has read all of this. Maybe she will decide she wants Dad along, after all, and maybe not.



My story goes back to 2010, when my then GF and I did the ICW with my mother, 92 and with very bad knees, and her mother, 87 and in great health, along for the ride. Jet Stream is a Leopard 45, and we had trucked our mast, separately, so there were few boat handling issues. It was something of a forced march, as this took place in November and early December, and we had to get the boat to the BVI for charters. We motored for hours a day, and sometimes into the night, and didn't see much of where we happened to stop. Marsha's mom, whose deceased husband was in the Air Force at Pearl Harbor - or rather Hickham - got around fine. My mother had a very hard time moving anywhere. We would put her on a stool and spin it around to get her legs over the entryway door sill. She could not get down into the hulls without a lot of help, so she slept in the salon and we would put a portable toilet in the galley, at night. She had a whistle to wake us up for assistance. Getting her on and off the boat was a mission, and we came within a few inches of dropping her in the drink on one occasion! But, she was a trooper, having driven an ambulance in the London Blitz in WWII. It was an enormous challenge, and many advised against it. Her doctor gave her his blessing, and it wound up being a memorable - in a very good way - experience. All of us would have done it again, in a heartbeat. It will always remain one of the most, and certainly the last great experience I had with my mother. She passed away, in a Florida assisted living home, six years later.



For what it is worth, I am now 70 (YIKES), still do charters, and still singlehand Jet Stream and all her 1400 plus feet of sail area. And, 92 doesn't look quite so geezerly as it once did.



I wish you all the very best of luck with this decision, and everything that follows.

[Jfricks]

If only my Dad were still here at 92...take him on the trip, find little things for him to do, placate the wife with the promise of a trip to Bermuda or the Virgins and make some great memories!

[Sailorbob8599]

Reading these responses proves there are a lot of thoughtful, caring people who believe as I do, that age is not the deterrent, it's mobility. If you can help him deal with that, then by all means help him make this trip. It may well be his last "Hurrah" … I'm only 87 but I know how I would feel about the opportunity to make such a trip if only I could find someone to accommodate me.
I think the major hurdle here, is the ability of others aboard to accept the responsibility it places upon all of them. I would say, if you're willing to deal with whatever happens, go for it. You will be giving him the thing he desires & you should not feel any pangs of guilt because he is doing what he really wants most in his twilight years.

[JPA Cate]

Hello Snowind,

Just one thing I'd like to add to contrail's perceptive post, and that is that although touted to be ready for sea, not all new boats are actually that ready, and you may discover that you need to put in along the way of the delivery, due to something that cannot be handled properly at sea for some reason or other.

I'm not as old as your dad, but I'm pretty old, I think old enough to understand his desire to come along, and be on the ocean once again, the motion, the smells, the wildlife. It can be a very emotionally healing thing.

I think at the core of this is that your love is getting in the way of setting limits that will work for you and your wife as a couple. Especially if, when she is hoping to get a little instruction relative to the ocean and the new boat, she could feel conflicted about who was to do the Dad caretaking, if he truly has difficulty getting about without help. Maybe if you actually share that caretaking equally, so she gets an equal share of what she wants, too?

I do think he is kidding himself about "helping". It is what he would love to be able to do, but a long ago Navy career does not prepare you for sailing on a smallish boat in a seaway. He may well be able to help keep watch, but you and your good lady should be perfectly capable of standing your watches, and with a 3rd watch stander along, he won't be needed, although maybe he could be a welcome passenger. [Jim and I do 6 on, 6 off, and have for all the years of cruising, (a little over 30 yrs.) once we found it worked well for us. One time, have had a wonderful crewman, and 3 on 6 off is easier.]

It occurs to me that this is a microcosm for when he moves out or you move him out when you head off around the world. He probably will not want to be left behind, then, either. And, if he is happy to be living with you guys, I would expect him to feel profoundly rejected, even if his words were to the contrary.

If your plan is for your dad to stay in the house, with a caretaker, maybe a caretaker along on the voyage would be a good thing.... And if you're worried about a serious medical incident at sea, maybe the evacuation insurance would be a good idea....

Contrail's notion of letting both your wife and father read this thread is a good starting point. You all have some important existential decisions to make.

Wishing you well, and delightful sailing,

Ann

[captmikem]

A few years ago I picked up a 46' cutter in Galveston to take to Jacksonville fl. Origanally it was just myself and a friend, but another friend who was I believe 91 asked to go along. I said sure and he joinde us in Galveston. It was one of the great adventures of his life. I recall It was about 14 days total, we stopped for a day at the Dry Tortugas and again at Key West for a day. We had mostly good weather, a few squalls and a frontal passage but nothing really notable. He brought along a SPOT and his wife kept track of our position and kept his friends advised, it was a great time for all of them. Later he wrote a little book about the trip and sent it to his friends and a retirement magazine.
I an happy I was able to provide this adventure for my friend.
M

[Taipe]

Do the wise thing and make the trip without him. Later he can go sailing with you in the Chesapeak.
The Gulf Stream and Hatteras would be very tough on him.