Cruisers Forum
 


Reply
  This discussion is proudly sponsored by:
Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about their products on Cruisers Forums. Advertise Here
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 09-11-2021, 05:07   #46
Registered User

Join Date: May 2016
Location: Land of 100,000 lakes
Boat: Boatless for now, looking!
Posts: 378
Re: 6 people rescued in 60 knots of wind and 20 ft seas 100 miles off California coas

Quote:
Originally Posted by redneckrob View Post

So just to summarize, abandoning a ship that's getting banged around in a storm, definitely a bad idea. Staying on a ship that's definitely sinking until the liferaft floats off as the ship slips under the waves....worse idea.
+1
__________________
If you aren't part of the solution, your the other part.
Midnight Son is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2021, 05:47   #47
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2020
Posts: 416
Re: 6 people rescued in 60 knots of wind and 20 ft seas 100 miles off California coas

We rode out 60kts over a 24 hours. About 100 miles offshore. I never could judge how large the swells were. We were hove-to. Fairly comfortable.
Cynara is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2021, 06:13   #48
Registered User
 
LakeSuperior's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2008
Boat: Teak Yawl, 37'
Posts: 2,979
Images: 7
Re: 6 people rescued in 60 knots of wind and 20 ft seas 100 miles off California coas

Quote:
Originally Posted by redneckrob View Post
Certainly abandoning a boat that's not taking on water or on fire is generally not a good idea. But there are hundreds of deaths over the years compared to the 15 in Fastnet where a boats have sunk taking the crew with them. We lost a CG small boat crewman several years ago trying to dewater a boat in distress. Boats don't generally gradually sink to the gunnells then gently slip under the waves. If you're on a boat that's taking on water faster than you can stop it, which was not the case in Fastnet BTW, then it's far safer to do an orderly abandon ship to a life raft when you're still in the period of the boat still has significant positive buoyancy. Otherwise you're amateur naval engineer staking your life on your ability to predict exactly when your rapidly sinking boat will sink. Your chances of getting out of the interior of a boat as it sinks, especially in heavy seas, and into a liferaft, are slim.

So just to summarize, abandoning a ship that's getting banged around in a storm, definitely a bad idea. Staying on a ship that's definitely sinking until the liferaft floats off as the ship slips under the waves....worse idea.
What you say is correct. Stepping up to the life raft is a figure of speech as you can imagine.
LakeSuperior is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2021, 06:28   #49
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2021
Posts: 28
Re: 6 people rescued in 60 knots of wind and 20 ft seas 100 miles off California coas

Quote:
Originally Posted by Searles View Post
At the risk of advising people that already know ,the vast majority of well found vsl s at sea will far out last there crew’s ability ,it would appear that a large number of abandoned vsls are abandoned because the crew can’t cope ,this is just plain lack of experience and seamanship ,not the same thing,a bit of advice to those who wish to go off shore,and something I see rarely done ,is if you expect to abandon your vsl at sea try to lower your anchor and as much chain as possible over the bow and secure as best you can ,a couple of hundred feet and an anchor will help hold the vsl head to the sea and weather,it may also anchor the vsl if she comes ashore,saving lots of gear .⛵️⚓️
a 70ft boat has an anchor of what weight? and what size chain?
Ive had to pull up my anchor from 15m depth on a couple of occasions, and the bow roller and winch were not happy. I cant imagine recovering the anchor dangling on 80m of chain. Presumably you would say cut it loose? the cost of survival?

All that assumes someone is able to get up to the bow and tie it off in the first place. I doubt the anchor winch would how it alone for very long.

THe concept sounds valid, bu has anyone actually done this?
Rotan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2021, 06:30   #50
Registered User

Join Date: Jun 2019
Location: Rochester, NY
Boat: Chris Craft 381 Catalina
Posts: 6,190
Re: 6 people rescued in 60 knots of wind and 20 ft seas 100 miles off California coas

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rotan View Post
Ive had to pull up my anchor from 15m depth on a couple of occasions, and the bow roller and winch were not happy.

If you can barely recover an anchor in 15 meters / 49 feet of water, that means your windlass and bow roller setup is seriously inadequate. For some people and places, that's a normal anchoring depth.
rslifkin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2021, 07:03   #51
Registered User

Join Date: Mar 2021
Location: Flagler County, FL, USA, Earth
Boat: Lagoon 380
Posts: 1,498
Re: 6 people rescued in 60 knots of wind and 20 ft seas 100 miles off California coas

Quote:
Originally Posted by rslifkin View Post
If you can barely recover an anchor in 15 meters / 49 feet of water, that means your windlass and bow roller setup is seriously inadequate. For some people and places, that's a normal anchoring depth.


Agree. I used to anchor on 200’ deep wrecks and dive them. Although just using 90’ chain and 300’ nylon. On a 32’ boat. I will say the windlass does notice when the vessel heaves up on swells.
team karst is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2021, 10:37   #52
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Portland Oregon
Posts: 43
Send a message via Skype™ to Capt. Mike Maurice
Re: 6 people rescued in 60 knots of wind and 20 ft seas 100 miles off California coas

The decision to abandon ship is not as simple as whether the boat will stay afloat.
I recall a boat that was steel and almost indestructible. With special heavy duty windows. But, due to the weak construction of it's interior I concluded that in a big storm the interior would come loose and that there was absolutely no place where the crew could retreat to that would be safe from the cabinetry, furniture, stove, refrigerator or other heavy objects.
Once they came loose, life and limb would be in serious jeopardy. And, I was convinced they would.
Capt. Mike Maurice is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2021, 11:16   #53
Registered User

Join Date: Mar 2019
Posts: 1,636
Re: 6 people rescued in 60 knots of wind and 20 ft seas 100 miles off California coas

Quote:
Originally Posted by Capt. Mike Maurice View Post
The decision to abandon ship is not as simple as whether the boat will stay afloat.
I recall a boat that was steel and almost indestructible. With special heavy duty windows. But, due to the weak construction of it's interior I concluded that in a big storm the interior would come loose and that there was absolutely no place where the crew could retreat to that would be safe from the cabinetry, furniture, stove, refrigerator or other heavy objects.
Once they came loose, life and limb would be in serious jeopardy. And, I was convinced they would.
There was a safe that broke loose on one of the Polar class icebreakers during a storm. They have a keel shape that isn't conducive to a great ride in heavy seas even though the ship is perfectly safe. Apparently they had to close off a space several compartments on all sides because it was going through walls and it completely destroyed the compartment it was in. Similar to what you're saying, it would have been tough to survive in there.
redneckrob is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2021, 13:33   #54
Registered User

Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Australia
Boat: Beneteau Cyclades 43
Posts: 31
Re: 6 people rescued in 60 knots of wind and 20 ft seas 100 miles off California coas

Sea anchor is a must have on an ocean going yacht.
Sailboatuser is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2021, 14:17   #55
Registered User
 
Group9's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 2,909
Images: 10
Re: 6 people rescued in 60 knots of wind and 20 ft seas 100 miles off California coas

Quote:
Originally Posted by tkeithlu View Post
I agree with bcboomer. It's not a matter of whether the boat could be saved. With an able and on-top-of-it crew it perhaps could be. The point is that the existing crew couldn't handle it, due not only to injuries to one person but exhaustion, exposure, and probably their skill level as well. Plenty of ocean sailors have transferred to waiting freighters and watched their boats float away. The boat is a trivial concern when safety is paramount.
Yep. Maybe a fresh crew air dropped onto that boat could have pulled things together and got her sailing again, but it sure wasn't going to be that banged up crew.

Everyone has their limit, and I hope I have enough sense to know when to leave my boat if that day comes.
__________________
Founding member of the controversial Calypso rock band, Guns & Anchors!
Group9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2021, 15:04   #56
cat herder, extreme blacksheep

Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: furycame alley , tropics, mexico for now
Boat: 1976 FORMOSA yankee clipper 41
Posts: 18,967
Images: 56
Re: 6 people rescued in 60 knots of wind and 20 ft seas 100 miles off California coas

Quote:
Originally Posted by redneckrob View Post
That's a "rule" I never heard in 20 years as a CG helicopter pilot, you come up with that one yourself?
i was taught that addage since i was 7 yrs old and first sailed withmy captain merchant marines(kings point graduate and rtw sailing tallships and steamers) and navy sailing uncle in his 36 ft gaff rigged raceabout designed by clinton crane as we sailed hudson river. he taught us well.
always step UP to the liferaft.
last one off ship is captain.
captain goes down with ship.
stuff not taught in these days of uscg availabiity and plastic boats and uscg bought capt licensure.
he also told us never let uscg touch your boat..
zeehag is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2021, 15:10   #57
Marine Service Provider
 
boatpoker's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Port Credit, Ontario or Bahamas
Boat: Benford 38 Fantail Cruiser
Posts: 7,047
Re: 6 people rescued in 60 knots of wind and 20 ft seas 100 miles off California coas

Quote:
Originally Posted by zeehag View Post
i was taught that addage since i was 7 yrs old and first sailed withmy captain merchant marines(kings point graduate and rtw sailing tallships and steamers) and navy sailing uncle in his 36 ft gaff rigged raceabout designed by clinton crane as we sailed hudson river. he taught us well.
always step UP to the liferaft.
last one off ship is captain.
captain goes down with ship.
stuff not taught in these days of uscg availabiity and plastic boats and uscg bought capt licensure.
he also told us never let uscg touch your boat..
Part of my Masters ticket class (Transport Canada) was swimming 100' and climbing into a life raft ... while wearing a survival suit in a calm swimming pool. Never again. You can't believe how hard that is if you haven't done it. I would never want to try it in rough water.

I agree ... Step Up !
__________________
If you're not laughing, you're not doin' it right.
boatpoker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2021, 17:31   #58
Registered User
 
JC Reefer's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 717
Re: 6 people rescued in 60 knots of wind and 20 ft seas 100 miles off California coas

I try not to judge others who end with loss like this. It’s only takes a few bone headed mistakes for this to be the result.

I’m typically good for 1 bone headed mistake per season.
JC Reefer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2021, 18:38   #59
Registered User

Join Date: Jun 2021
Location: Southern California
Boat: Bavaria 38E
Posts: 375
Re: 6 people rescued in 60 knots of wind and 20 ft seas 100 miles off California coas

Quote:
Originally Posted by wingssail View Post
I am generally unsympathetic to people who want to get off of a vessel when they encounter miserable weather at sea. Too often it appears to simply be a matter of discomfort.

In this case however, getting an injured crew member to medical care probably justified the rescue, although the extent of her injuries was not clear.

But the captain and other four people? Could they not have stayed with the vessel and possibly saved it?

Unpleasant as it apparently was couldn't the crew have withstood those seas on a 79ft vessel until the storm passed and steerage regained?

It seems like quitting, to me.

I hope never to be in that situation, but if I am, I hope I have the courage to stay and try to save the vessel.
Now what is one to do with all that “unneeded” and overpriced rescue equipment costing thousands if you cannot get “rescued” when conditions deteriorate and you become afraid? Ultimately, aren’t they are getting what they were sold to trust and believe in? Government to the rescue.
Auklet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2021, 19:49   #60
Registered User
 
wingssail's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: On Vessel WINGS, wherever there's an ocean, currently in Mexico
Boat: Serendipity 43
Posts: 5,508
Send a message via AIM to wingssail Send a message via Skype™ to wingssail
Re: 6 people rescued in 60 knots of wind and 20 ft seas 100 miles off California coas

Quote:
Originally Posted by Auklet View Post
Now what is one to do with all that “unneeded” and overpriced rescue equipment costing thousands if you cannot get “rescued” when conditions deteriorate and you become afraid? Ultimately, aren’t they are getting what they were sold to trust and believe in? Government to the rescue.
Oh get real, Auklet. The Coast Guard's rescue equipment is not overpriced or un-needed. It is hard to imagine a lesser equiped or lesser trained team who could rescue people at sea. It's possible to imagine that these folks didn't all need to be taken off their boat, but others certainly need it. The Coasties have the right equipment and taining to do it, regardless of the need. I am glad we have them. Thank you USCG.

But we see right through your sarcasm. You think that it's "government to the rescue" that is theproblem. You'd rather see people stand on their own two feet, keep government out of it. That we are sheep being"sold" on the usefullness of government.

I disagree. It is not the govrnment, it's us. From my perspective we (sailors) may have become soft. It is too easy to get on a boat when you are unprepared, and when it gets tough, you can't stick it out. You want off. It is because we are priviliged; we don't have to sitck it out. Pampered you might say.

But it is not the government's fault. They are not "sellng" us on dependancy. That's on us, not them.
__________________
These lines upon my face tell you the story of who I am but these stories don't mean anything
when you've got no one to tell them to Fred Roswold Wings https://wingssail.blogspot.com/
wingssail is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
cal, california, knot, rescue, wind

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
4 People, Dog Rescued 290 miles off Savannah Lepke General Sailing Forum 13 01-01-2017 10:07
Family Rescued off California Coast rover88 Cruising News & Events 87 25-03-2011 10:36

Advertise Here


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 04:19.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.