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08-11-2021, 07:21
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#31
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2019
Posts: 29
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Re: 6 people rescued in 60 knots of wind and 20 ft seas 100 miles off California coas
Be generous in support of the USCG members working to keep us safe:
https://coastguardfoundation.org/ways-to-give/donate-directly
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08-11-2021, 10:33
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#32
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Sodus Bay, US (south) side of Lake Ontario
Boat: Pacific Seacraft Crealock 34
Posts: 86
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Re: 6 people rescued in 60 knots of wind and 20 ft seas 100 miles off California coas
This comment is slightly off-topic but there is a connection. Pre-COVID I visited New Zealand (absolutely marvelous place - go there sometime if you can) and went for a hike at the beginning of one of the more famous/infamous very long, difficult, multi-day trails. I had no intention of going very far myself since I didn’t have the time, equipment, and physical skills to do the entire trail, but I wanted to see at least part of it. And I had already discovered why the New Zealanders were the first to conquer Mount Everest along with the Sherpas because they are a very hearty bunch. If a New Zealander tells you: “it’s just over there a bit“ be wary.
I was told on the same trail much farther along a previous party got into trouble. One of their members sprained her ankle. They called for a helicopter rescue. Apparently the helicopter crew wasn’t all that impressed with her injury but they loaded her on the helicopter anyway. Well, the rest of the party wanted to join her on the helicopter. Oh no - you guys get to keep treking along. Being cold, wet, hungry and tired didn’t count.
I wonder if the New Zealanders have a same approach to at sea rescues?
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08-11-2021, 11:36
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#33
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Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2020
Posts: 416
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Re: 6 people rescued in 60 knots of wind and 20 ft seas 100 miles off California coas
Because I wasn't there, I don't like second guessing what they should have done.
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08-11-2021, 12:31
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#34
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Marine Service Provider
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Port Credit, Ontario or Bahamas
Boat: Benford 38 Fantail Cruiser
Posts: 7,047
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Re: 6 people rescued in 60 knots of wind and 20 ft seas 100 miles off California coas
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cynara
Because I wasn't there, I don't like second guessing what they should have done.
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Agree ! Where do these people buy their crystal balls ?
__________________
If you're not laughing, you're not doin' it right.
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08-11-2021, 12:41
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#35
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 513
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Re: 6 people rescued in 60 knots of wind and 20 ft seas 100 miles off California coas
So much judgement. How many sinking or badly damaged boat hundreds of miles at sea with injuries have you had to make this decision on?? Probable .01 percent have…..if that.
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08-11-2021, 12:44
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#36
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: SF Bay Area
Boat: Other people's boats
Posts: 1,103
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Re: 6 people rescued in 60 knots of wind and 20 ft seas 100 miles off California coas
Quote:
Originally Posted by boatpoker
Agree ! Where do these people buy their crystal balls ?
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Ah, you'll be looking for one of the tabernae vagantes then.
"Certain constants apply to these shops. They carry exactly what the person is looking for, even if they aren't looking for anything particular; Out of all the myriad items, most of which are broken, the most powerful and mystical one will be the most ordinary looking, and the most affordable; and the shop owner will be older than mud, but sharper than flint.
These shops will appear in rarely traveled side streets, and will look as though they have been there forever. The next time the customers return (often to return the purchased items) the shop will be gone, the space it occupied looking as though it has been that way forever as well."
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08-11-2021, 14:37
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#37
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2019
Posts: 1,636
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Re: 6 people rescued in 60 knots of wind and 20 ft seas 100 miles off California coas
Quote:
Originally Posted by Laxlife
Maybe. The rule is step-up to board the life raft. The decks are awash and the raft is floating above you. It’s a general rule and generally applicable but that means there are lots of mitigating factors.
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That's a "rule" I never heard in 20 years as a CG helicopter pilot, you come up with that one yourself?
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08-11-2021, 14:49
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#38
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Skagit City, WA
Posts: 25,453
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Re: 6 people rescued in 60 knots of wind and 20 ft seas 100 miles off California coas
Getting off the boat was a good decision. Leaving on that boat, in that location, this time of year was a bad decision.
__________________
"I spent most of my money on Booze, Broads and Boats. The rest I wasted" - Elmore Leonard
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08-11-2021, 14:57
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#39
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Senior Cruiser
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: PORTUGAL
Posts: 30,561
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Re: 6 people rescued in 60 knots of wind and 20 ft seas 100 miles off California coas
Quote:
Originally Posted by redneckrob
That's a "rule" I never heard in 20 years as a CG helicopter pilot, you come up with that one yourself?
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True.. The real 'Rule' is "never get into the liferaft till your standing on the button"
Your welcome..
__________________
It was a dark and stormy night and the captain of the ship said.. "Hey Jim, spin us a yarn." and the yarn began like this.. "It was a dark and stormy night.."
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08-11-2021, 15:48
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#40
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Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Portland Oregon
Posts: 43
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Re: 6 people rescued in 60 knots of wind and 20 ft seas 100 miles off California coas
There are some strange things about this boat.
1. There is no Barvolento with a length of 79 feet. There is one of 57ft. Built 1932.
2. The vessel with this doc number: 231569 does not show a current registration. Expired 2004.
3. It does not show a current radio license.
It was calm in that area on the 16th. The home port is listed as Seattle.
I recall a similar accident about 25 years ago, 45' sailboat damaged near Cape Blanco, at night in high winds. Failure to get into port when they could have, owner had broken ribs. 50 kn winds earlier that day, went to 70 during the night. Helo could not get the people off and the CG boat crew got hurt and could not help. Same time of year. I was nearby headed south, but in port during that night.
These accidents all have similar characteristics. What is it that people don't understand about big, bad, ugly, screaming, howling wind? And what are they doing out in deep water, far from help?
I have been off Cape Blanco in 50, on the Columbia River bar in 60, in the Gulf of Alaska at Hinchinbrook Entrance in 80, on 2 different boats in harbor with winds of 125 to 150 mph. And a little ahead of several storms in the 70 knot class. In each case we were headed for cover without delay.
Superman doesn't know how to avoid big, bad storms. Chicken-man does.
The weather forecasting system is not presently capable of accurately predicting storms that will blow up beyond the forecast. Don't ever forget that!
Out of the clear blue, on a calm day, with no forecast of high winds we got into a 40 knot SE blow just north of Pt. St. George(Crescent City). There were some small boats out fishing from Brookings and they were being rescued, we were getting pounded(42' Sailboat).
This was about 2 years ago. The lesson is clear, don't ever let your guard down. The weather doesn't care how experienced you are.
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08-11-2021, 15:54
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#41
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2008
Boat: Teak Yawl, 37'
Posts: 2,979
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Re: 6 people rescued in 60 knots of wind and 20 ft seas 100 miles off California coas
Quote:
Originally Posted by redneckrob
That's a "rule" I never heard in 20 years as a CG helicopter pilot, you come up with that one yourself?
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It was a very clear lesson from the Fastnet in 1979. 15 sailors perished. A number of them went to the lifeboats. Their abandoned vessels were found floating. The book about the event, "Fastnet Force 10" is a gripping read.
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08-11-2021, 18:27
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#42
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Moderator
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: aboard, cruising in Australia
Boat: Sayer 46' Solent rig sloop
Posts: 28,400
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Re: 6 people rescued in 60 knots of wind and 20 ft seas 100 miles off California coas
I'd like to add an observation to the general mystery: The title said 60 knot winds and only 20 ft. seas. Now, I have personally experienced 22 ft. seas in a steady 45 knots. Therefore, I am wondering about the accuracy of the reported sea state, for the wind. It just seems as if one or both may be off.
Ann
__________________
Who scorns the calm has forgotten the storm.
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08-11-2021, 18:56
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#43
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Pacific Northwest, USA
Boat: FL12 12 ft rowboat, 8 foot sailing dink, 18 foot SeaRay I/O
Posts: 321
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Re: 6 people rescued in 60 knots of wind and 20 ft seas 100 miles off California coas
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cadence
My take is, those rescue swimmers have a bigger set of balls than me. For that matter the whole crew on those choppers.
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Careful how you say that. Some of these rescue swimmers are women and they have to meet the same quals as the men.
I might add that on one of my assignments in the Coast Guard, my job was to review a lot of boating accident reports (actually hundreds of them) Quite a few of these abandoned boats turn up a few months later floating just fine by themselves without crew. Some are retrieved, some are sunk because they are a hazard to navigation. But as was pointed out the boat can withstand more that the crew. In this case though it probably sank.
__________________
Ike
"Dont tell me I can't, tell me how I can"
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08-11-2021, 19:26
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#44
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Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Portland Oregon
Posts: 43
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Re: 6 people rescued in 60 knots of wind and 20 ft seas 100 miles off California coas
Wave heights are a function of time and distance(fetch) and duration.
Given a steady wind of 60 knots and an unlimited fetch, I think the theoretical max sea state is about 60 feet. Plus there can be a wave 3 times the average about once in 4000. And so on.
It is easier to evaluate the sea state by examination and then working backwards. In other words, 20 foot waves, 60 knots: short fetch, short duration.
All of this is covered pretty well in Oceanography and Seamanship by William Van Dorn.
His book has tables and graphs where you can pick points on the time, fetch and duration and come up with the theoretical heights and periods.
Of course these are all tables based on mathematical models, which are after all just models.
Or as it is commonly understood: "your mileage may vary".
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09-11-2021, 04:54
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#45
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2019
Posts: 1,636
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Re: 6 people rescued in 60 knots of wind and 20 ft seas 100 miles off California coas
Quote:
Originally Posted by LakeSuperior
It was a very clear lesson from the Fastnet in 1979. 15 sailors perished. A number of them went to the lifeboats. Their abandoned vessels were found floating. The book about the event, "Fastnet Force 10" is a gripping read.
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Certainly abandoning a boat that's not taking on water or on fire is generally not a good idea. But there are hundreds of deaths over the years compared to the 15 in Fastnet where a boats have sunk taking the crew with them. We lost a CG small boat crewman several years ago trying to dewater a boat in distress. Boats don't generally gradually sink to the gunnells then gently slip under the waves. If you're on a boat that's taking on water faster than you can stop it, which was not the case in Fastnet BTW, then it's far safer to do an orderly abandon ship to a life raft when you're still in the period of the boat still has significant positive buoyancy. Otherwise you're amateur naval engineer staking your life on your ability to predict exactly when your rapidly sinking boat will sink. Your chances of getting out of the interior of a boat as it sinks, especially in heavy seas, and into a liferaft, are slim.
So just to summarize, abandoning a ship that's getting banged around in a storm, definitely a bad idea. Staying on a ship that's definitely sinking until the liferaft floats off as the ship slips under the waves....worse idea.
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