Cruisers Forum
 


Reply
  This discussion is proudly sponsored by:
Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about their products on Cruisers Forums. Advertise Here
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 12-12-2017, 15:06   #16
Registered User

Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Bellingham
Boat: Outbound 44
Posts: 9,314
Re: $300 old liferaft, or $2300 new?

So $1100 for a raft with a few year life time vs $2300 for a much longer lifetime. How long do you plan to cruise offshore and need a liferaft?
Personally I think you are wasting your money if you plan to need this for next 6 years.
Just because you can get it repacked where you are now does not mean that you will be able to at the next location in 3 years.
__________________
Paul
Paul L is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-12-2017, 15:19   #17
Registered User

Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 455
Re: $300 old liferaft, or $2300 new?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryban View Post
The guy who services rafts here has said that he has seen 25-year-old rafts that were in great condition and perfectly serviceable,
'perfectly serviceable' ?

I wouldn't trust this guy. While I'm no service specialist I have never heard that a liferaft is supposed to have a live > 25 years. In fact and as also mentioned above, the raft life is (official) finished after about 12 years.
blu3534 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-12-2017, 15:31   #18
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Out of Norfolk Va
Boat: Tartan 37
Posts: 687
Re: $300 old liferaft, or $2300 new?

The more I think about a Zodiac PVC life raft sitting under the topic sun for an untold years. Then wondering if this is the days the seams come unglued like a three year old Zodiac PVC inflatable. I'm thinking new unless you have the service center to verify condition as VERY GOOD shape. When my parents were getting rid of their life raft I took a pass on that one and it was free. There is a reason old life rafts sell very cheap.
puffcard is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-12-2017, 15:38   #19
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: UK
Boat: Jeanneau 371
Posts: 192
Re: $300 old liferaft, or $2300 new?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryban View Post
Offshore.

The guy who services rafts here has said that he has seen 25-year-old rafts that were in great condition and perfectly serviceable, and other times, 6-year-old rafts that were complete disasters.

I'll try and get a date off the raft, but the text is pretty sun-bleached.
I inherited a life raft on a charter boat I bought. My son said it did not look if if was OK. We unpacked it and he fiddled with the gas charger connection.
Yes the gas went off, the raft inflated but five mins later it was as flat as a fluke. The gas was OK the raft was a lace curtain.
If you have a life raft it must work, if not the skipper must make sure his craft dose not sink. He must put his craft into a safe haven or is good with a bucket.
Deltasailor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-12-2017, 19:25   #20
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Montreal
Boat: Dufour 39 Frers
Posts: 400
Re: $300 old liferaft, or $2300 new?

Plastimo is now announcing new life raft with 20 years life lime guaranty. Before past 12 years old, it could not be recertified again.


Offshore versus coastal difference is only on the amount of food and survival kit you find into the raft, as well as ability to correctly inflate with negative temperature -15C to +65C, whereas coastal include less survival material and 0C to 65C correct inflate temperature range.


This is about it. Most coastal or offshore now have isolated or double layer floor.


Latest stats, shows that offshore, 95% of distressed call are processed within 24h.
So do you really need offshore with all th add-on ?
A grab bag with extra water, food and equipement you consider mandatory will convert an good coastall to good offshore, in case you need to wait rescue for more than 24h.
Unless may be you are very fare offshore (South Pacific?) in an area where nobody can get to you.
Emouchet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-12-2017, 19:48   #21
Registered User
 
Aguabago's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: SE Asia / Colorado
Boat: bruce roberts mauritius 44
Posts: 49
Re: $300 old liferaft, or $2300 new?

Have the guy servicing it unpack it and tell you the condition, then at that time you can decide to proceed or not. Most of the servicing cost is in the provisioning and repacking. Have him give you two prices, one to unpack and asses, and the other to repack.
Aguabago is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-12-2017, 19:54   #22
CF Adviser
 
Pelagic's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2007
Boat: Van Helleman Schooner 65ft StarGazer
Posts: 10,273
Re: $300 old liferaft, or $2300 new?

For me, the biggest failure in Liferaft Management is that they have not designed them to be easily inspected, refreshed and repacked by Crew.

Ideally we should be able to do this annually ourselves, with readily available maintenance products and spares to replace.

This would identify any local wear or moisture problems before they became failures and make the management of a neglected piece of critical life saving gear, more proactive for those with the greatest vested interest.
Pelagic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-12-2017, 23:36   #23
Registered User

Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Hawaii
Boat: Jeanneau SO DS 49
Posts: 351
Re: $300 old liferaft, or $2300 new?

I agree with suigin It needs to be inspected . I would chance it given the huge cost difference and materials involved. My 10 yr old liferaft cost 130 euros to inspect in Spain had no issues except the supplies needed to be replaced which I declined as we have a ditch bag of supplies with 10 times more than the rafts . Can you work a deal where you pay only for inspection before buying?
SteveSadler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-12-2017, 00:51   #24
Moderator
 
Don C L's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Channel Islands, CA
Boat: 1962 Columbia 29 MK 1 #37
Posts: 12,526
Images: 58
Re: $300 old liferaft, or $2300 new?

If you ever actually need it, the moment you crawl in you'll say "I'm sure glad I got the good one!"
__________________
DL
Pythagoras
1962 Columbia 29 MKI #37
Don C L is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-12-2017, 15:47   #25
֍֎֍֎֍֎֍֎֍֎

Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 15,133
Re: $300 old liferaft, or $2300 new?

Chuck-
"Third, Zodiac rafts are welded"
Zodiac-US had specifically told me (and tis could be 8-10 years ago, so it is not current) that they were GLUED and their failure rate as they aged is why the French government condemned them at ten years. Forcing Zodiac itself to follow the same policy, and (all according to Zodiac-US) forbidding their dealers to service older rafts under any circumstances.

This may be false, this may be outdated information. The Zodiac rafts and dinks may well be welded these days. (If glue was a problem, they'd have to be cretins to keep using it, wouldn't they?)

But I think it brings up the more general consideration as to "How old is too old?"
The answer is, ASK THE MANUFACTURER directly, and ask their authorized distributor (i.e. Zodiac-US in the US) and find out when authorized service for that specific product will not be available.

Yes?
hellosailor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-12-2017, 16:14   #26
Registered User
 
Cheechako's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Skagit City, WA
Posts: 24,782
Re: $300 old liferaft, or $2300 new?

roll of the dice. If anyone will service it is a big issue. There must be a serial number etc? There have been many out there at that low price but no one tells you if it can be serviced . You could service it yourself I suppose. There were youtube videos about it.
Tell the buyer "inflate it and I will inspect it and if good I'll take it" ?
__________________
"I spent most of my money on Booze, Broads and Boats. The rest I wasted" - Elmore Leonard











Cheechako is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-12-2017, 16:32   #27
Registered User

Join Date: May 2009
Location: Massachusetts
Boat: 40' Silverton Aftcabin with twin Crusaders
Posts: 1,791
Re: $300 old liferaft, or $2300 new?

The OP is considering purchasing an ancient Zodiac life raft, Zodiac that is known for poor gluing, Zodiac who was once sued because their PVC boats had early life failures.

Good luck, Mr. OP
foggysail is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-12-2017, 17:12   #28
Marine Service Provider

Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Charleston, SC
Boat: Avon D560 18'
Posts: 117
Re: $300 old liferaft, or $2300 new?

Quote:
Originally Posted by hellosailor View Post
Chuck-
"Third, Zodiac rafts are welded"
Zodiac-US had specifically told me (and tis could be 8-10 years ago, so it is not current) that they were GLUED and their failure rate as they aged is why the French government condemned them at ten years. Forcing Zodiac itself to follow the same policy, and (all according to Zodiac-US) forbidding their dealers to service older rafts under any circumstances.

This may be false, this may be outdated information. The Zodiac rafts and dinks may well be welded these days. (If glue was a problem, they'd have to be cretins to keep using it, wouldn't they?)

But I think it brings up the more general consideration as to "How old is too old?"
The answer is, ASK THE MANUFACTURER directly, and ask their authorized distributor (i.e. Zodiac-US in the US) and find out when authorized service for that specific product will not be available.

Yes?
15 year lifespan from date of manufacture. Only to comply with French naval legislation. Nothing to do with anyone, simply a first attempt to legislate liferafts back in the 1980s.

Zodiac leisure rafts made after 2003 are mostly welded. As of 2015, the ISO9650-2 raft is 100% welded and the ISO9650-1 raft is 99.9% welded (four glued tabs to hold some insulation in place).

I would not recommend using a liferaft older than 15 years from date of manufacture. Neither elastomers nor plastomers get better with age.
KD8NPB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-12-2017, 17:20   #29
֍֎֍֎֍֎֍֎֍֎

Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 15,133
Re: $300 old liferaft, or $2300 new?

cheechako-
A reasonable concept. Except.
Can we assume that life raft makers fall into one of two groups?
1-Those who are only interested in maximizing new sales
2-Those who want to maximize owner satisfaction

These being at times contradictory goals, depending on how they are executed.

So "maker #1" tells their dealers "If you touch those rafts after 12 years, we'll pull your franchise, and you get no refund of those franchise fees. And we'll sue you."

"Maker#2" tells their dealers "Look guys, keep the customer happy, if they bring it in, and they pay for a repack, have a good time. Oh, by the way? Our own wrranty analysis shows that after 8 years, 3% of our rafts will fail to deploy and hold air for 72 hours. That goes up to 5% after ten years, and 7% after 12 years, but after 15 years, we're finding 15% of the rafts just don't work, so, you know, we really think everyone would be happier condemning them, or at least having the customer sign off a liability waiver saying they've been warned it just might not work ay more."

Ah...How well is either policy going to be received? And do you think any large company, whether it is life rafts or butane lighters, is really going to go public with their warranty failure numbers? (Yeah, apparently those dollar-store butane lighters shouldn't be in your disaster kit, a lot of them just leak out in a couple of months.)

Do I think some makers cry wolf? You betcha. I'm a card carrying cynic, and I figure that since some WW2 aircraft tires actually are uncracked, still hold air, and have been used all these years later....a life raft damned well ought to be able to work more than 15 years. I'm just reluctant to say that because something works today, that I can bet my life on it not deteriorating in a place where I can't see it for the next two or three years. And, "the pros" for whatever reason say it can't be trusted.

Marketing by FUD...or whatever. I wonder if we could convince SailRite to rent out the welding machines, and sell vulcanized rubber fabric?
hellosailor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-12-2017, 17:47   #30
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 903
Re: $300 old liferaft, or $2300 new?

The only reason I can see to buy an inflatable liferaft is if one is planning to sail some place where the bureaucracy requires a "certified life raft." (e.g. Argentina). Maybe if I had kids on board, I'd think differently.

For a small boat on a budget, outfitting the dinghy as a lifeboat makes the most sense to me (e.g. the "Portland Pudgy" concept, but probably cheaper.) But like the OP, I just don't have room for a rigid tender on deck. Zodiac does sell a rapid inflation kit for dinghies, that uses a scuba cylinder. And it doesn't seem too hard to build such a thing. Hmm... the dinghy and the scuba cylinders are both things that I would have lashed down on deck anyway... But it wouldn't be "certified."

I admit that I have been carrying around an expired valise-style liferaft below decks for years now. Mostly for trim because it counterbalances the weight of the galley. (!) It can't be recertified because "Avon" no longer supplies some required part. These things are a joke as far as "instant deployment." If you're going to have such a thing, it needs to be in a canister (or dedicated cockpit locker) on deck. There is no way anybody is going to wrestle such a thing out of the quarter berth and up the companionway in a few seconds during a fire or collision. One of these days, I'll probably "blow it up" just for fun. Although it's interesting that YouTube is already replete with videos of this same model inflating successfully after 10, 20, even 30 years...
toddster8 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
liferaft

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Advertise Here


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 19:14.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.