23 ft sailboat to 33 ft sailboat: What's the difference?

[gonesail]

Originally Posted by SmokedGouda

I guess the real question is given my experience how concerned should I be about this. Is it a big jump or just a small jump and a matter of getting behind the helm and going for it.

It was a BIG jump for me from a 28 to a 33. IMHO you should try to get some experience in the bigger boat before you make the jump. either way good luck with it.

[Cheechako]

The jump is not hard. Yes you have to learn to avoid manhandling too much. Think ahead a bit more for wind, current etc when docking. But it's not hard. 33 is still manhandle-able really.

[MIRELOS]

10 feet.....but seriously, you really learn to sail on a small boat, moving up on size is just adapting to the systems and you can't pull one sheet with just your hand.
I went 27'-35'-60'........no more tiny bumps

[jim King]

Biggest difference is in docking. You will probably have an inboard diesel with a 33' boat and need to know what the prop walk will do in your slip. you can man handle a 25' boat in the slip, not so much with three times the weight on a 33' boat. At sail, the 25' boat will respond much faster than the 35' boat. it also takes longer for the 35' to respond as there is much more delay effect when you make turns. Getting knocked down in a blow is less likely in a lager boat and control may require an extra hand where you probably can single hand the 25'.

[jen1722terry]

We've owned sailboats from 8' to 31' and sailed much larger.

Some boats handle well in tight marinas, some don't. Not sure if length is a big factor. Others have already noted the consequences of more mass in collisions.

If you plan on living aboard for any length of time, you'll like the things that come on the larger boat: fridge, larger solar panels, more sea-kindly in a blow, wider berths with thicker cushions, larger head with a bit more room to shower, larger anchor and chain storage, maybe a windlass, larger batteries.
More fuel economy in a diesel.

But all this larger stuff costs more money. Maybe think about how often you'll use the boat and for what.

I had a little Bristol 26 back in the 80s. Loved the boat, but life got busier and I figured it was costing me over $100/day just for a day sail, in 1980s dollars. Sold it and just chartered until I retired. Some days we needed a larger boat and we charted one. Other days we'd charter a pocket cruiser.

Whatever you decide, have a great sailing season.

[lvictorlucas]

The major differences are:

1) Things happen much slower, and are more stable so you are not jumping around as much
2) Manhandling takes more force
3) You need to plan ahead more
4) When something goes wrong it is more expensive and can be dangerous so ALWAYS have at least one (I usually have 2) back up plans
5) Whenever possible have a way out
6) Everything to replace or upgrade is more expensive
7) Life is easier in swells and chop as the engine water intake usually stays in the water
8) The ride is much smother in chop

I'm sure I missed a few but this will give you a start.

[AJ_n_Audrey]

I went from a 27' with an outboard to a Laser, and then to a 36.5 foot with 40HP inboard diesel. Big differences are:

1) Systems: electronics, house bank, freshwater tanks and pumps, electric windlass, and as mentioned previously, a 40HP inboard diesel.

2) Docking - more momentum means it's more difficult, but it just takes practice, really.

Sailing is about the same, though sails are bigger, so reef early.

I like my bigger boat much better than the 27 foot because I can go places; I could even cross oceans. In retrospect, I kind of wish I had gone a bit bigger, say 40 feet. But my boat gets the job done.

[MJH]

Originally Posted by SmokedGouda

Hi all,

Maybe I am getting in my own head. I have a lot of experience on keel boats in the 20-25 ft range. In fact I've docked boats like this engineless dozens of times single handed. Think Catalina 22, Com Pac 23, and boats of that nature

What's the biggest change when going up to a boat in the 30-35 ft range. I'd imagine the biggest one is just not being able to manhandle things and going from the helm to the bow takes longer.

I guess the real question is given my experience how concerned should I be about this. Is it a big jump or just a small jump and a matter of getting behind the helm and going for it.

I realize that the list of things could be expansive and I could be overthinking it but any thoughts on things to look out for and biggest differences would be a great help.

Thank you everyone for your input.

I have gone from a 22' to a 28' to a 42'. There wasn't much difference going 22'-28' as far as handling is concerns...both had tillers and fin keels and could turn on a dime and leave change. The 28' had a diesel, a big plus over an outboard, and more comfort inside plus speed.

Going from 28' to 42' was a huge difference. The 28' weighed 6,000 lbs. and the 42' weighs 30,000 lbs. with a long fin keel and skeg which makes any tight maneuvering a challenge to say nothing of managing the kinetic energy of that much weight. Additionally, the cutter rig was something new to learn how to sail plus about 2.5 times the sail area to handle. There were many more systems I had little knowledge of (refrigeration, air conditioning/heating, autopilot, hot water heater, shower, genset, gel batteries, windlass, SSB, i.e.) plus new requirements to support these features that the new-to-me boat needed that it didn't have or needed upgrading (larger alternator, smart regulator, battery monitor, solar, windvane, i.e.) to handle the new offshore profile.

So, moving up to a larger boat has a lot to do with what you are going to do with it. Moving from one fin keeled sloop to another larger one to continue coastal cruising will be much less challenging than what I have undertaken. But larger boats have a tendency to want to grow in comforts that will challenge ownership.

Good Luck.

~ ~ _/) ~ ~ MJH

[fred4936]

We went from 22 to 27 to 34. Short fin,centerboard to long keel with centerboard, to shoal wing keel. All handle very differently. The keel configuration seems to have more of an effect than the size, although the bigger the boat, the more room and time you need to maneuver. Certainly doable, give yourself time to learn. The learning curve is there, steepness will depend on the boats, but not insurmountable. The Tartan 27-2 was the easiest boat I ever sailed, but the Pearson 34-2 is getting easier every time. Going in reverse is much easier in the 34, due to keel, not size. But at first the Tartan seemed easier to back up since I knew it better.

[TrentePieds]

A half century ago I often had people that had had 12 hours in Cal 20s come aboard a 27 ton ketch for a 10 day "croose'n'learn".

My "welcome aboard" spiel stressed three things:

a) The fundamentals are the same.

b) This boat, at 27 tons, is a BIG hammer, and can do a great deal of damage very quickly.

c) Things take longer to do, and problems evolve much slower than they do in a Cal 20. You therefore have to "think ahead" farther, and you have to be much more competent and much more bloody-minded to stop things that are beginning to go awry.

After that, we'd do our "pre-sail inspection" and "get to know the ropes"

After that, once we were in clear water, I tell off the smallest woman aboard to hoist the main (about 400 SqFt) without a winch. Standing by, of course, and "talking her through it" step by step. Having done that, she'd be glowing with pride, and no man aboard would get in her way for the rest of the trip.

One of the most annoying "problems" facing a sailing instructor with a mixed crew of novices is the husband that interferes with the teaching of his wife by stepping in with a "here, Honey, let me show you".

If you remember my "a-b-c" you'll have no problem transisting. One more thing, if you are gonna teach yourself: Practise your boat handling under power in open water using some floating object as a pretend "end of the dock". Because you CANNOT manhandle a heavy boat, you must learn the boats response to the combination of:

a) the prop walk
b) the drift (motion over the ground) induced by wind
c) the set (motion over the ground) induced by current

In these days of crowded marinas it is CRUCIAL that you have those things under control from the very beginning. If you have misgivings about returning to you own slip, remember that there is no shame in going to the hammerhead and requesting help.

TrentePieds

[Redline452]

I went from a Holland 7.6 (23') tiller steering, outboard powered to a C&C33, wheel steering, inboard diesel. It felt huge at first... for a few days. Surprising how quickly one gets used to the handling. Definitely more comfortable, more stable. Eventually added a furler to the '33, so sail handling became that much easier. On the 23 someone standing on the bow stowing the anchor rode or hanking on the jib was enough to pop the outboard out of the water when motoring against a sea. Not a problem on the 33.
... and a head with a door. Oh, and powered refrigeration (12V/120V) instead of a chest cooler, and a decent holding tank (not part of the 5-gal head). And pressure water, HOT pressure water. And standing headroom. Life is good.



FWIW, moving from the '33 to a 45.2 (closer to 49 overall with bow pulpit and arch) was a similar - took some getting used to, but not all that much.



Biggest difference with bigger/heavier boats is that you will need/use winches more, things that you used to pull by hand will require some mechanical assistance. And for docking especially, make sure to stop the boat where you want it. Forget about manhandling or fending off with arms or legs. Like a pilot, learn when to call a "missed approach", go around (or back away) and start over again if things go south. Do not attempt last-minute corrections with people parts. And if worst comes to worst, it's just fibreglass.

Enjoy the new boat.

[roland stockham]

On the plus side the boat is likely to be sturdier and steadier, especially when it is rough. Helm will likely be steadier and less twitchy so either you can leave her for a bit or an autopilot will be easier to set up and manage. This makes it overall easier to handle as things happen more slowly. You will need to look further ahead because of that but should very quickly adapt to that. Below decks things will seam more secure and it will be quicker and easier to do stuff like cooking and nav.
The downside is that you will have to plan a lot more when docking. The extra displacement means you can't stop as fast and if you bump something it is more likely to cause damage. Once out of harbour I find the bigger boat easier to handle. When I had a lightweight 26 footer I often used to come in standing on the cabin top with the boom in one hand and the jib clue in the other, I definitely can't do that on my current 35ft heavy weight.

[Lazy Jack 32]

Having gone from 23 feet and 3,000 lbs to 32 feet and 12,500 pounds two years ago, the very first thing I noticed was a piling coming up on the starboard beam and the reversed propeller taking its sweet time to slow the boat down. Once the boat was safely docked, the second thing I noticed was backing up to port at 45 degrees, although the wheel was telling the boat to back up to starboard. (After doing a 360 outside of the slip, I was cheerfully on my way).



The third, fourth, and fifth things I noticed was how much more room there was for dealing with sails and such, how much more time there was to react to changes, and how little difference my own weight made when going forward to tend to sails.



After that came the delightful surprises of walking around down below without ducking, having separate quarters for people to sleep, having plenty of room to cook and serve meals, and having an enjoyable home away from home with wonderful scenery, whether sailing or reading or playing banjo at the dock.



But everything people have said about getting the docking part down is good advice.

[japawil]

I went from a 25’ with an outboard to a 33’ with an inboard diesel and 4 or 5 times the displacement.

The biggest learning curve for me was learning about prop walk and how to use it to my advantage not to my detriment compared to swinging an outboard.
The larger the boat the less immediately responsive they become, so in close quarters slow everything down until you’re comfortable with your control; take your time. It’s like going from driving a car every day to driving a U-haul truck, you’re aware immediately of the difference of agility so you slow down and think things through ahead of time.
Remember to only approach a dock as fast as your willing to collide with it.

Take it out an practice simulated close quarter maneuvers in open water until you’re comfortable with how maneuverable it is.

Of course you’ll have to learn the use and maintenance of different and more complex systems that tend to go along with larger boats, but that’s fun!
Take your time and practice, you’ll be fine.

[canyonbat]

We went from our Seaward 25 to a Beneteau 40 with few problems. Much bigger problem going back to our 25 after we sold the 40!