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Old 04-11-2019, 09:08   #1
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1st Boat Questions

Ahoy! We are beginning to think about buying our first sailboat. We have some experience sailing with a club on a lake in N. Ga, but have moved to Jacksonville and want to get experience with ownership. You all can decide on the level of crazy that makes us.

Nonetheless we have some basic questions and hope our brethren here can help.

1) We would likely pay cash for an older boat in 30’ range. Is it common for marinas to require insurance even though a boat is lien free? Also any suggestions on insurers?

2) We understand that we’ll have maintenance on the boat which is one of the motivations for buying. We need the experience. We’ll most likely be tied up at a marina in the ICW. How often would you guess we would need to clean the bottom? Is it common for marinas to have a service for this and what would be a reasonable cost?

3) Anyone have a list of regular maintenance items to expect through the year?

Jax specific questions

1) We’re considering Palm Cove Marina based on cost and proximity to the inlet. Anyone have experience here? Other suggestions?

2) What are the best day or weekend cruises from here?

Appreciate any and all guidance.
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Old 04-11-2019, 09:42   #2
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Re: 1st Boat Questions

1. Marinas usually require $500,000 Liability Insurance at least. Mine is about $10.00/month

2. Cleaning the bottom is up to you. Some do it more often that others like racers. Some folks have their bottom cleaned twice a season. I went 4 years with no bottom cleaning but just repainted the bottom last winter

Usually you can find a diver at your marina to do the bottom. They'll be coming by to do other jobs and you can get up with them then

3. Yearly maintenance for me is an impeller for the outboard and stabilizer for the gas. And changing the engine oil and lower unit oil in the outboard.

Most folks recommend lubricating all seacock, but mine are all closed so I haven't done that in a few years

Then there's touchup painting usually on the decks and in the cabin and sometimes some sewing on the sails if the UV cover is coming off or one of the head straps has broken during the season

And don't forget to inspect your anchor, rode, and chain regularly......and your rigging both fixed and running, and your dock lines. Then do a preflight before you leave the dock where you check all important things.....

There's lots of good advice here for the beginner, and a list of Good Old Boats

https://atomvoyages.com/planning/goo...oats-list.html
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Old 04-11-2019, 10:34   #3
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Re: 1st Boat Questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by thomm225 View Post
1. Marinas usually require $500,000 Liability Insurance at least. Mine is about $10.00/month

2. Cleaning the bottom is up to you. Some do it more often that others like racers. Some folks have their bottom cleaned twice a season. I went 4 years with no bottom cleaning but just repainted the bottom last winter

Usually you can find a diver at your marina to do the bottom. They'll be coming by to do other jobs and you can get up with them then

3. Yearly maintenance for me is an impeller for the outboard and stabilizer for the gas. And changing the engine oil and lower unit oil in the outboard.

Most folks recommend lubricating all seacock, but mine are all closed so I haven't done that in a few years

Then there's touchup painting usually on the decks and in the cabin and sometimes some sewing on the sails if the UV cover is coming off or one of the head straps has broken during the season

And don't forget to inspect your anchor, rode, and chain regularly......and your rigging both fixed and running, and your dock lines. Then do a preflight before you leave the dock where you check all important things.....

There's lots of good advice here for the beginner, and a list of Good Old Boats

https://atomvoyages.com/planning/goo...oats-list.html


Awesome. Thanks for the info.
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Old 04-11-2019, 11:15   #4
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Re: 1st Boat Questions

Greetings and welcome aboard the CF, Commodore.
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Old 04-11-2019, 12:26   #5
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Re: 1st Boat Questions

Thanks, Gord
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Old 05-11-2019, 11:50   #6
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Re: 1st Boat Questions

Greetings!

Thomm225 was pretty accurate with his post already so I won't be adding anything new to the conversation BUT I hope to see you on the ocean soon!

Welcome and take care!
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Old 05-11-2019, 12:31   #7
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Re: 1st Boat Questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by Commodore64 View Post

3) Anyone have a list of regular maintenance items to expect through the year?

Appreciate any and all guidance.
I don't have much to add regarding "regular" maintenance, but we just bought a boat ourselves and I thought I'd add some "wanna/need to do" maintenance.

1) When you get the boat and REALLY dig into it you will undoubtedly find lots items that need to be cleaned immediately and regularly to prevent the spread of mildew. So regular cleaning as maintenance

2) Look for mildly neglected items that need maintenance. (Lubricating cables to rudders and seacocks came up on my boat)

3) Putting your own imprimatur on the boat. I changed all my running rigging so that there was a color scheme for each sail to help my save my marriage to a non-sailing wife e.g. all lines that have to do with the main have some form of red in them. Main sheet is bright red. Fore sail sheets are blue. "Honey, pull in the main sheet errrrr the bright red rope"

Just some experiences from someone who bought an otherwise sail away boat.
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Old 07-11-2019, 11:56   #8
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Re: 1st Boat Questions

  1. Surely it would be best to telephone a few marinas where you think you might keep it, and ask them what they need. And yes: it’s a pretty high level of crazy—welcome to the club
  2. It depends where you keep the boat, whether in ICW water or tidal, nearer the sea. It also depends what it’s made of, and whether it has recently been antifouled.
  3. If its an old boat you get for a song, the answer will be—everything.
  4. Can’t help with the local issues.
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Old 07-11-2019, 12:01   #9
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Re: 1st Boat Questions

Suggest ou read this before ou go look at boats.

Marine Survey 101, pre-survey inspection
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Old 07-11-2019, 12:31   #10
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Re: 1st Boat Questions

Hi C64 and welcome from another ex-resident of Alpharetta, now in Gainesville FL but between these lived on Lake Lanier and did a bit of motor boating there.


Jax is a relatively inexpensive place to keep a boat (relatively being the operative word). You might also want to check out south of Jax on the St John's River. Farther to the ocean but big enough to sail in (typically two miles wide or so). Also once you get out into the ocean from Jax there's not much to do unless you want to sail up to St Mary's inlet on the north end of Amelia Island or south to St Augustine. Otherwise you go out, sail around then go back.


I'm currently keeping my boat in Green Cove Springs, mainly because it's at least 30 minutes closer to Gainesville than anywhere else I can reach in my boat. If you find some boats in the area let me know and if I'm not out of town will try to come by and take a look with you. Used to be a yacht broker and have been through dozens of surveys so might help you eliminate any obvious dogs before you spend money on a formal survey.


And yes, most places want you to have at least liability insurance in case the wind gets you sideways and you scratch someone's new paint job.
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Old 07-11-2019, 13:03   #11
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Re: 1st Boat Questions

I'm not answering all your questions but I have some input for you, Don't be shocked.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Commodore64 View Post
Ahoy! We are beginning to think about buying our first sailboat. We have some experience sailing with a club on a lake in N. Ga, but have moved to Jacksonville and want to get experience with ownership. You all can decide on the level of crazy that makes us.

Nonetheless we have some basic questions and hope our brethren here can help.

1) We would likely pay cash for an older boat in 30’ range. Is it common for marinas to require insurance even though a boat is lien free? Also any suggestions on insurers?

Marinas require insurance to protect themselves from costs or damages you incur, not to pay off any loans you might have, so the lack of lien doesn't usually concern them.

What you need is third party liability, We carry $300,000 which is a bit low, but it was enough for our marina. It also covers us if we bump into anyone on the race course although it would not cover the cost of a new Swan should we collide with one and sink it.


2) We understand that we’ll have maintenance on the boat which is one of the motivations for buying. We need the experience. We’ll most likely be tied up at a marina in the ICW. How often would you guess we would need to clean the bottom? Is it common for marinas to have a service for this and what would be a reasonable cost?

In our experience this is usually done by independents, not the marina. in 1986 we paid $65 each time for our 43' boat. In 2019 we pay $41 for our 43' boat. How often depends on two things (three actually). How recently you've had new bottom paint, how fast growth occurs in your area, and if you are going racing. We do bottom paint annually and don't touch the bottom for six months, then a bottom clean once, again in three months, then monthly. The worst place for growth was Cartagena. We had new growth in two weeks after bottom painting, but after we left the Bay the bottom was good for several months, as usual. If you race you'll want a wipe down before major regattas. If you have a clean water area to anchor you can clean it yourself with snorkel gear which is a good way to keep track of how things are down below. And great exercise.

3) Anyone have a list of regular maintenance items to expect through the year?

I am not going to offer regular maint list, I think several people will contribute to that, but I think that irregular maintenance is a far bigger deal, in terms of cost and time. Our regular and irregular maintenance together runs about $500-$1000 month not including the exceptions listed in the next paragraph.

So I am attaching an extract from our 2019 project list which is in two sections and covers the period from March 31, 2019 to December 1 2019 to give you an idea of what boat ownership can be like. This list does not include new sails, rigging or other major expenses. It does not include racing costs which are roughly an extra $500/month and, for us, which occur from December through March. It does not include haul out and bottom paint. It does not include major refits which we have done about three times since we bought the boat, and each was roughly equal to the original cost of the boat, (so we've paid for it four times in 34 years, not including annual expenses such as this list). It does not include moorage, fuel, water, provisions, or insurance. We have owned this boat since 1986 and we keep it in serviceable shape. We do not like broken things. (meaning we have lists like this every year, this is not just a catch up project)

I am not saying that this is typical, but many boat owners I've talked to just shake their heads when they think of how much time and money their boats take up.

And BTW, I don't begrudge this boat 1 cent or 1 second. it is worth it for the joy I get from owning and sailing it.


Jax specific questions

1) We’re considering Palm Cove Marina based on cost and proximity to the inlet. Anyone have experience here? Other suggestions?

2) What are the best day or weekend cruises from here?

Appreciate any and all guidance.
Attached Files
File Type: xls Temp Maint List 2019.xls (28.0 KB, 6 views)
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Old 07-11-2019, 14:31   #12
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Re: 1st Boat Questions

You mention lake sailing in N Ga so I expect fresh water, not salt. I mostly sail on fresh water and the maintenance is much easier than in salt water. Thx-Ace
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Old 07-11-2019, 15:02   #13
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Re: 1st Boat Questions

Hi C64,
I live just down the road in St. Augustine in a marina on the ICW about two miles north of the Bridge of Lions. I'm planning to move to a marina in Jax in the spring when my lease is up here, mostly to be closer to work. Feel free to pm me and maybe we can combine efforts in the search. And of course, welcome aboard the forum
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Old 07-11-2019, 16:35   #14
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Re: 1st Boat Questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tmacmi View Post
...I changed all my running rigging so that there was a color scheme for each sail to help my save my marriage to a non-sailing wife e.g. all lines that have to do with the main have some form of red in them. Main sheet is bright red. Fore sail sheets are blue. "Honey, pull in the main sheet errrrr the bright red rope"...
Yeah, we do this. When the foredeck says, "take up the slack in the jib halyard!" just about anything can happen. But when he says, "Tension Blue" everything is simpler.
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