10%??? Seriously???

[wesevans]

Think 10% is too much? You need to try working as a broker some time.

[Fore and Aft]

Just yesterday I went to survey a yacht that the buyer had put a deposit down on. Private sale so the deposit went straight into the owners account. Within 20 minutes of being onboard I pointed out some major faults and the buyer decided to back out of the deal. The boat owner then blatantly said to us he will be keeping the deposit! Luckily the buyer has a contract in writing regarding the deposit being subject to survey. But now it's going to end up in small claims and no amount of reasoning with the seller will make him see sense. This is the second time this year where I have seen sellers keeping deposits. There was another incident this year where a guy tried the same BS but in writing. Luckily my client asked me if it was acceptable to give a non-refundable deposit and I said no.
Cheers

[smj]

Originally Posted by Mike Banks

Real estate is usually five percent on the first ten grand, 2.5 % thereafter. You earn every cent of it too.

In the states real estate is 6% and if your lucky you may be able to get it down to 5%.

[CaptJDK]

I have done some work as a yacht broker and it is not as easy as you think.
While you have your boat listed with a broker, you basically sit back and don't have to do a thing. The broker is the one who has to arrange the showings, show up for them at sometimes the most inconvenient times, needs to answer the phone calls and emails at anytime of the day and deal with the tire kickers. He also has his expenses to pay, such as advertising, internet listings, yacht salesman bond, etc. He will make sure that the closing of the sale is done properly and according to law.
So, don't underestimate the work to be done. 10% may seem high but, on high priced boats, this can be negotiated. Keep also in mind that the salesman does not get 10%. Half of it goes to the employing broker and, if an outside brokerage company brings on a buyer, the whole thing gets split another 50%.

[CaptJDK]

Originally Posted by EngineerRetired

I'm looking to buy in the immediate future and I'm thinking of telling the broker I want half the commission applied to the price. 10% is plain nuts.


If one won't take the deal, another one will. Human nature is what it is. (A little greedy and eating the other dogs bone has always been a good time.)

If you hire a broker to find you a boat, he will get 50% of the selling broker's commission. That represents only 2.5% as the selling broker's commission is 5% only. The other 5% goes to the employing broker. So, you would want your broker to give you 1.25%?
Now, if you deal directly with the seller's broker, you are going to ask him for 50% of is 5% commission (the other 5% going to his employing broker)?
If I am the seller's broker and you came to me with that proposal, I would tell you to look somewhere else.

[Tanqueray]

I am sure that brokering is time consuming and doesn’t mean riches. But for the 3 boat transactions that I have bought and sold, I did 2 without a broker.

The first boat I ever bought ($25k) was sold through a broker. Worked out well, and I learned a lot about the processs.

When I sold that boat, I sold it privately, and all went well.

When I purchased my second (and current) boat, also under $25K, it was a private sale/purchase.

In my area (Lake Michigan, Chicago area), I think that 10% is a typical brokerage fee. I guess like real estate, it depends on how many boats the broker has listed. Some won’t sell, others will sell quickly. But the fee on a $25,000 boat isn’t going to make anyone rich.

If the average sale price was $75k, 10% fee that the broker splits with the house, he gets $3,750 per sale. If he sells a boat a month, his gross is $45k. So I don’t begrudge them their 10%, but if I can do it myself (on low-cost boats), i will keep the cash in my pocket.

Greg

[CaptJDK]

Originally Posted by wesevans

Think 10% is too much? You need to try working as a broker some time.

Exactly!

[flightlead404]

Originally Posted by friz

I doubt if Christ has any interest in your money. The comment is in bad taste.

He does a pretty good job on my lawn!

[flightlead404]

Originally Posted by EngineerRetired

Strange, Mohammad laughed his butt off. Can't please everyone I guess.

Supernatural fantasists don't have a sense of humor. Witness all the things they do to each other that the enlightened of us are aghast at.

[flightlead404]

Originally Posted by smj

In the states real estate is 6% and if your lucky you may be able to get it down to 5%.

With real estate if you're "trading up" you can often work a deal if you agree to use the same agent on the next purchase. I've done that before. I would expect similar agreements would work in the boating world.

I've bought/sold all my planes, and some higher end cars, and one house myself. Personally I think people underestimate the amount of work necessary to do a good job. Researching the market to acertain the real value of your item (not what you wish it is worth!), staging the house or boat, improving "curb appeal", keeping it clean and in a good condition to show, taking the necessary HIGH QUALITY photos/videos, placement of the advertisements, responding the enquiries and weeding the serious from the lookie lous, all that adds up before you get to showing one.

And all that time you're paying insurance, slip fees and so on.

If you're willing to do the work, knock yourself out. I'll continue to do it on things I'm expert with or which are unique, but will never do it with a house again.

[EngineerRetired]

Look, I am not saying being a boat broker isn't work. I AM saying that two or three times the percentages a realtor makes IS ridiculous.

I think people get it in their head that the word "boat" grants a license to charge insane prices for it. Yes, even parts and supplies.

[Jim Cate]

Researching the market to acertain the real value of your item (not what you wish it is worth!), staging the house or boat, improving "curb appeal", keeping it clean and in a good condition to show, taking the necessary HIGH QUALITY photos/videos, placement of the advertisements, responding the enquiries and weeding the serious from the lookie lous, all that adds up before you get to showing one.

If a broker actually did all these things (especially the "keep it clean and ready to show" bit) then the high commission might well be a good deal. But in reality, that isn't what I've observed in many cases... far from it.

Over the years we've dealt with a number of brokers. A very few were indeed hard working, attentive and competent in their jobs. The rest ranged from not so hot right down to useless, yet they all were charging the same commission rates. No wonder some customers balk at 10%!

I do too, mostly by not going through brokerages at all. YMMV.

Jim

[flightlead404]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

If a broker actually did all these things (especially the "keep it clean and ready to show" bit) then the high commission might well be a good deal. But in reality, that isn't what I've observed in many cases... far from it.

Over the years we've dealt with a number of brokers. A very few were indeed hard working, attentive and competent in their jobs. The rest ranged from not so hot right down to useless, yet they all were charging the same commission rates. No wonder some customers balk at 10%!

I do too, mostly by not going through brokerages at all. YMMV.

Jim

I can't speak for boat brokers, but based on my experience with brokers in other markets that I've dealt with I'd agree with your assessment. That's why its important to shop around, understand what they are and are not going to do for you, get it in the contract, and hold them to it.

But, that sounds like good advise about every business dealing in every field ever, n'est pas?

If you're going to have to do (almost) all those things yourself, then I agree, why use a broker? Just to get access to the MLS of the boat world (yachtworld maybe?). POP yachts seems to be the FSBO broker that can get that for you for way less than 10%.

[MicHughV]

If you don't use a broker, how do you assign a value to your boat ???

You can peruse Yachtworld, etc to get a general idea, but the value you place on your boat is likely to be based on your purchase price, the years you've owned it and any likely modifications done to it. In short, it's a hit and miss thing.

Seems like most brokerage boats have the 10% factored in. ie, you think your boat is worth $100,000, so you add $10,000 to the price.

When I look at listed MLS prices and what a boat actually sold for, it tells another story.

No matter how you slice it, purchasing a boat is an expensive experience. Just to get to the dotted line part, you will have absorbed a lot of travel time and expense, a haulout, a survey, etc....so splitting hairs about the brokerage fee seems moot to me.

[smj]

Originally Posted by MicHughV

If you don't use a broker, how do you assign a value to your boat ???

You can peruse Yachtworld, etc to get a general idea, but the value you place on your boat is likely to be based on your purchase price, the years you've owned it and any likely modifications done to it. In short, it's a hit and miss thing.

Seems like most brokerage boats have the 10% factored in. ie, you think your boat is worth $100,000, so you add $10,000 to the price.

When I look at listed MLS prices and what a boat actually sold for, it tells another story.

No matter how you slice it, purchasing a boat is an expensive experience. Just to get to the dotted line part, you will have absorbed a lot of travel time and expense, a haulout, a survey, etc....so splitting hairs about the brokerage fee seems moot to me.

In most boat sales the haulout and survey are paid for be the buyer not the seller and if the boat is located close to the seller there should be minimal travel time and expense for the seller.
In the 13 boats we’ve owned we’ve purchased 5 through a broker and sold 1 through a broker. From our experience maybe 10% of boat brokers are worthwhile and do a good job, the other 90% are absolutely worthless, probably cause more lost sales and give the brokering profession a bad name.
Selling a boat by owner does take some work but can be very satisfying and nake new friendships.