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**skipmac** · 07-12-2010, 13:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Auspicious

The weather below the mid-ocean high--where ever that is at the time--is generally not so bad.

The OP did say where they are going: Chesapeake Bay.

Front's off the East Coast can be unpleasant. Some years are worse than others. They do seem to follow patterns. Last year was ugly. The year before was pretty gentle. The pattern should be in place before they leave. Regardless, it isn't terrible, just unpleasant.

I'm very aware of the sad experience of Rule 62. There is a huge difference between trying to get into a very narrow cut in the Bahamas during a rage and entering the Chesapeake. The Chesapeake is a very friendly entrance.

Well, was not really referring to Rule 62. As you say, entering a cut in the Bahamas has nothing to do with weather offshore. I was referring to the weather experienced by most of the fleet after they left the east coast.

I missed the Chesapeake destination but just reinforces my opinion. It will be Jan before they reach the area. Even if they get lucky and and don't get hammered, why take the risk. Take the southern route for a whole list of reasons: warmer, safer, easier, faster.

May-June ok if you like, Jan no thanks.

archimit · 09-12-2010, 12:28

the reason i posted this here and asked for advice is because in general i share the same thoughts.
in a few days we should get the crew together and have a good discussion clearing all plans, reasons, conditions, etc... at least i imagine it so.

i am also aware it's a delivery and i'm ready to even take a higher risk, provided there are some reasons for it.

me myself i'm organising and skippering sailing trips across the aegean. since i always have a schedule to keep i was often forced to come against bad weather to reach a certain point to drop off/pick up people. mostly taking care of stuff by myself on 47-49ft bavaria monohulls with crew mostly beginner. have faced gales up to 50kts and real nasty waves....

i imagine the scale of bad weather inside the ocean is quite different...

big thanks to everyone that share their opinions / experiences

**skipmac** · 09-12-2010, 12:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by archimit

the reason i posted this here and asked for advice is because in general i share the same thoughts.
in a few days we should get the crew together and have a good discussion clearing all plans, reasons, conditions, etc... at least i imagine it so.

i am also aware it's a delivery and i'm ready to even take a higher risk, provided there are some reasons for it.

me myself i'm organising and skippering sailing trips across the aegean. since i always have a schedule to keep i was often forced to come against bad weather to reach a certain point to drop off/pick up people. mostly taking care of stuff by myself on 47-49ft bavaria monohulls with crew mostly beginner. have faced gales up to 50kts and real nasty waves....

i imagine the scale of bad weather inside the ocean is quite different...

big thanks to everyone that share their opinions / experiences

Seems pretty clear that you have the experience and good sense to evaluate the potential risks on the trip. Good luck and do let us know what you decided and how the trip works out.

Interesting you mention taking inexperienced crew on deliveries. Have done the same my self a couple of times, usually FL to the USVI. Did one trip on a 32' monohull with me and two crew members who had never been sailing before. Worked out just fine. Both followed rule #1. If anything happens, you hear anything, see anything or ever think anything is happening call me. Actually worked better than one trip with more experienced crew.

Auspicious · 09-12-2010, 13:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by archimit

i am also aware it's a delivery and i'm ready to even take a higher risk, provided there are some reasons for it.

A delivery doesn't mean more risk - generally it means less risk since the skipper really wants to hand the boat back to the owner in good shape. A delivery does mean comfort is secondary to speed, since every day costs the owner more.

archimit · 10-12-2010, 04:55

ok here i am with another question:
on a professional delivery, what is considered to be the minimum neccessary equipment on the boat, if you are to go on such a trip in this period?

**estarzinger** · 10-12-2010, 05:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by archimit

what is considered to be the minimum neccessary equipment on the boat, if you are to go on such a trip in this period?

Three tough and experienced guys, and a bottle of rum

Seriously, this is MUCH more about the people than it is about the equipment you carry.

But if you are looking for a well thought out fit-out/equipment list, look at the Cat 1 & 0 special regulations (its a 2mb download): http://www.bethandevans.com/pdf/OSR2...lete091209Web-[7979].pdf

I personally have some disagreements with this list - it does not require anywhere near the sorts of tools and spares I think one should have, and does require all sorts of electronic gizmos that are nice but I don't think are necessary. But it is the best and most authoritative list I know of.

edsailing · 10-12-2010, 05:58

Essential: Autohelm, Charts/chartplotter, backup GPS, VHF, handheld VHF, Weather info receiving equipment, Liferaft, EPIRB, PFD +Harness, deck jack lines, engine spares, engine oil, wooden bungs, spare fuel, plenty of water, Grab bag, Good medical kit, good tool kit, bolt croppers

Crew (4) able to stand a solo watch (know colregs), not seasick.

satphone is good but not essential, ditto AIS, radar, radar reflector. Pilotage information. I have a list I can let you have if you let me know

How's that for starters?

edsailing · 10-12-2010, 10:40

Here is a list of the equipment that I consider to be 'Must Haves'

Engine and other spares checklist
Cable ties
Oil filters
Fuel filters
Impeller
Alternator belt(s)
Distilled water
Engine oil - 5 litres
Gearbox oil – 1 litre
Selection of shackles etc
Spare diesel - 20 galls
Siphon pump for refuelling
Electrical Multi meter
Socket set, screwdrivers, wrenches, hammer etc
Wooden bungs-selection
Cable ties
Mooring lines
Warps
Spare anchor

Instruction books for eqpmt
Ductape
Jubilee clips
WD40

First aid kit checklist

Aspirin
Paracetamol
Ibuprofen
Plasters
Stugeron
Dia-calm or similar
Laxatives
Anti histamine cream
Dressings

Safety and navigation equipment checklist

Nav lights and spare bulbs
Life raft,
Danbuoy
Horseshoe rings
EPIRB
2nd GPS + spare batteries
VHF
Hand held VHF + spare batteries
Navtex or weatherfax &/or LW/HF radio for weather info
Fog Horn
Torches + batteries
Flares – offshore pack
Paper charts of sufficient scale for emergency use
Breton plotter, dividers, pencils, eraser
Barometer
Windex, boat speed instruments
Ships log
Almanac/Pilot for coastal areas
Tidal atlas
Life jackets and harnesses for all
Jack lines on deck
Emergency steering gear
Foul weather gear
Grab bag for abandon ship
Courtesy flags
Ships papers – Ownership, Registration, Insurance
Lee clothes fitted?

zeehag · 10-12-2010, 11:25

survival suits and heated water wings--i have great respect for an angry atlantic ocean. especially in winter.....

goboatingnow · 10-12-2010, 14:45

hey mate, I ve done lots of bad weather deliveries, if you were waiting for some of the equipment listed you'd never do a deliverly.

Get yourself a personal PLB, make sure the crew know what they are doing, getting out of biscay is the hard part and your skipper is right to be concerned. Ihave don four crossings of it in Nov and Dec and if your unlucky , well ......( its a crap shoot).( teh phrase nowhere to run, nowhere to hide come to mind). The deep ocean stuff is much easier. weather info is great to have but ultimately of no use as you cant do anything about it. ( I sailed with many a delivery skipper at the start, who had no time for weather reports!!).

Youll be fine, it will be an experience, but you learn lots lots of stuff.

PS dont try to outthink the skipper, either trust him or dont go, its not harmonious to good sailing. The crew of square riggers didnt go around second guessing the old man

Dave

archimit · 10-12-2010, 15:08

PLB came to my mind but i dont have it yet. i should get one before i go from la rochelle...
got me own navigation, maxsea, handheld gps etc...
dont know if skip got any hf radio though
i got a cheap 2nd hand globalstar sat phone and to my astonishment the whole thing works! new gstar satellites are true. every 10-15mins average i have 10-15 mins connection and i talk to people. i should even be able to DL GRIBs by it but still to test it now...
otherwise i have i think good whole piece drysuit for foulweather (survival?)
PFD harness etc...
not sure what the skipper got though neither what the shipyard supplied the cat with... at least liferaft for sure.
weather forecasting was my basic issue - we didnt seem to have any means and they said "out there with or without forecasting u cant really do nothng" ?!
2 days ago we didnt even have epirb but now at least there is a new one for the boat...
wonder if we got sea anchor/drogue... brochure(?!) says cat has 2 x 50ft mooring lines ... doesnt seem the same if we need to slow down.

cheers and thanks, guys
will drop some lines later

yeloya · 04-01-2011, 12:30

Hi Archimit,

I fully support what gobaotingnow said. I assisted partly to the delivery trip of my Orana 44 from Palermo to Mamaris. The skipper was a great guy from Reliance. The boat equipment was not completed by any standards, however he was keen to take weather eports regularly and wait if necessary.
I would agree with the skipper : the toughest part is the xit form the Biscayne. You will be waiting at least a favorite wheather window of 6 days which is not easy in this period of the year.
More importantly, I sailed Lipari quite a bit; it's lively, light, fast but has a rudder stalling problem. I was once about to flip over at 25 kts of wind (sorry full sails..); I flew one hull...
In short, unlike the rest of the FP fleet, this one has to be sailed with extreme care and prudence. Good news ? She points better than many monohulls..

Good luck

Yeloya

s/v Eagle · 08-01-2011, 13:45

straight line is not always the shortest route. You are going to have to go south before you go north.

zumsel · 12-01-2011, 13:08

I'm really eager waiting for an update from the OP. Did he made the crossing? And if so, how was it going? Although he might be still fighting the elements. It could be to soon for him to respond.