St Vincent and grenadines yellow flag

[pistarckle]

I am a little confused ! What made you think that a yellow flag had any thing to do with sailing through some ones waters . A yellow flag sez I request and intend to clear into your country , nothing else . Someone mentioned territorial waters , I believe that that has nothing to do with "innocent passage ". Territorial laws concern fishing, sanitation , security . The general criminal and civil laws of the state do not extend to foreign ships in the territorial seas if vessel is involved in an innocent passage .

[StuM]

Originally Posted by pistarckle

Someone mentioned territorial waters , I believe that that has nothing to do with "innocent passage ". Territorial laws concern fishing, sanitation , security . The general criminal and civil laws of the state do not extend to foreign ships in the territorial seas if vessel is involved in an innocent passage .

Territorial "waters" (actually "sea") has everything to do with Innocent Passage. That's where the right of innocent passage exists.

Note that the distinction between, and definitions of, "territorial sea" and "internal waters" is critical to this issue in many island nations.

UNITED NATIONS CONVENTION ON THE LAW OF THE SEA

UNCLOS Part 2 Article 17:

Subject to this Convention, ships of all States, whether coastal or land-locked, enjoy the right of innocent passage through the territorial sea.

Article 18:
1. Passage means navigation through the territorial sea for the purpose of...

[Pelagic]

Trying to keep it simple....
If you don't intend to stop then you can sail right thru territorial waters (without stops or deviation) and you do not fly the Q flag.
Just make sure your clearance paperwork from previous country supports your intention to bypass SVG.

[StuM]

Originally Posted by Pelagic

Just make sure your clearance paperwork from previous country supports your intention to bypass SVG.

Good point

[denverd0n]

Originally Posted by justjohn

In most Caribbean countries it is common to fly the yellow if you are resting and not going on their soil. And it is not illegal.

I think that if you actually check the laws you will find that, in most Caribbean countries, it is, in fact, illegal. They just don't enforce it much. In every country that I'm familiar with, though, the law is pretty clear that if you are anchoring then you need to check in--even if you don't intend to go ashore.

As for "the law of the sea," there is no such thing. There is the UNCLOS treaty, which many (but not all) countries have agreed to. But every country still has the right, and the authority, to write their own laws. Hence, you need to be aware of the specific laws for each and every country whose territorial waters you intend to visit.

[justjohn]

I have checked the law and them checking your boat and clearing it without you leaving it is what the yellow flag is for. It makes no sense to fly a flag to tell them you intend to go ashore and fallow the law. That's just stupid. However if you fly the yellow and stay aboard and leave after rest and they choose not to come to your vessel and clear it ..... That is "free passage" and one of the purposes of the yellow flag.


The Lady Euphoria

[TeddyDiver]

Originally Posted by justjohn

I have checked the law and them checking your boat and clearing it without you leaving it is what the yellow flag is for. It makes no sense to fly a flag to tell them you intend to go ashore and fallow the law. That's just stupid. However if you fly the yellow and stay aboard and leave after rest and they choose not to come to your vessel and clear it ..... That is "free passage" and one of the purposes of the yellow flag.


The Lady Euphoria

Maybe you have misunderstood something..
just saying

[svlamorocha]

Originally Posted by denverd0n

As for "the law of the sea," there is no such thing.

I take that your point is that there is no single statute that will tell you how these things will work in the waters of ALL the countries you will visit when you are "abroad" because each country is sovereign and they tend to have their own statutes, interpretations, etc. I agree so far.

Originally Posted by denverd0n

There is the UNCLOS treaty, which many (but not all) countries have agreed to.

But every country still has the right, and the authority, to write their own laws. Hence, you need to be aware of the specific laws for each and every country whose territorial waters you intend to visit.

I agree that that UNCLOS is not the answer to all questions, but let´s not give cruisers an excuse not to have a copy and look at it. After all, most countries that have not ratified UNCLOS will act as if they had ratified it. Best example is the USA, which has not ratified UNCLOS but recognizes UNCLOS as a codification of "customary international law", which in turn means UNCLOS is part of federal common law. No one would have the time to look up "innocent passage" in the statutes of all the countries they visit, but almost everyone can benefit from reading the UNCLOS text on innocent passage as someone did upthread because most countries will follow it in one way or another.

Therefore (using a trip from BVI to USA going through CUBA as an example) it helps me to know BOTH the long list of crazy CFR regulations that are enforced by US Dept of Commerce, USCG, US Dept of Treasury and UNCLOS.

[Pelagic]

Originally Posted by justjohn

I have checked the law and them checking your boat and clearing it without you leaving it is what the yellow flag is for. It makes no sense to fly a flag to tell them you intend to go ashore and fallow the law. That's just stupid. However if you fly the yellow and stay aboard and leave after rest and they choose not to come to your vessel and clear it ..... That is "free passage" and one of the purposes of the yellow flag.


The Lady Euphoria

Not Correct!

The universal primary meaning of flying the "Q" flag is that you have not yet been inspected for pestilence/disease and are still under Quarantine.

It is a warning to others not to board until QIC have cleared vessel and you are instructed to take flag down.

Also...once you have anchored you are no longer under passage, so even if it is a force majuere situation.... You must contact the authorities.

Obviously these international conventions take on local interpretations of how they choose to manage the many pleasure yachts passing thru. That can change from officer to officer or port to port in the same country.

Just be aware that local relaxed reputations for QIC can and will change after a high profile event.

Do not assume you are following the law when you are not.

[Jim Cate]

Originally Posted by Pelagic

Not Correct!

The universal primary meaning of flying the "Q" flag is that you have not yet been inspected for pestilence/disease and are still under Quarantine.

It is a warning to others not to board until QIC have cleared vessel and you are instructed to take flag down.

Also...once you have anchored you are no longer under passage, so even if it is a force majuere situation.... You must contact the authorities.

Obviously these international conventions take on local interpretations of how they choose to manage the many pleasure yachts passing thru. That can change from officer to officer or port to port in the same country.

Just be aware that local relaxed reputations for QIC can and will change after a high profile event.

Do not assume you are following the law when you are not.

Correct, and well stated!

Especially the last sentence... so many times over the years we've seen yotties flaunting local rules with the result that the authorities get peeved and crack down on everyone.

Cheers,

Jim

[justjohn]

Then why would they say that they would not honor the yellow flag anymore? Because the plague was whipped out years ago and the West Indies just got the news? Really?? I'm just telling you what they told me. Is there a maritime attorney in the house who could help? Anyway I'll keep with the three generations of sailors in the carribean in our family and their wisdom and not pay a 5000.00 ec fine in st Vincent. You all do as you choose. Fair winds and fallowing seas to those who actually sail the seas.


The Lady Euphoria

[boatman61]

As has been said you don't fly the Q flag passing through.. just stay outside the 3 mile line.. and you do not anchor anywhere without clearing in.
Maybe they're just pissed of with folk taking advantage and costing them revenue..

[Pelagic]

Originally Posted by justjohn

St Vincent and grenadines customs and coast guard told me last week that they did Not honor the yellow flag for free passage in their waters and any vessel that has not checked in will be fined 5000.00ec. We just sailed right past them on the way back north. Please be advised


Sent from my iPad using Cruisers Sailing Forum

They explained in simple direct terms what you must do , rather than correct you on your misguided understanding of the meaning of the Q Flag.....
I suspect it was close to lunchtime...

[justjohn]

Was that you standing in line behind me there making dumb ass faces at them like me? It was not a simple explanation nor was it lunch time but I can see that you like to assume many things! Unless that was you Captain I would keep what I thought happened in that office on my own boat and not here. I have miss understood nothing that they said or that has been written here. I simply don't agree with this common interpretation nor did the officials I was speaking to. It does not make me wrong to be in the minority ..... And unless you where there you should probably attend to your luffing jib and not guess at things you have no knowledge of.


The Lady Euphoria

[Pelagic]

John..... You can fly the Q flag while sailing past a country..... You are simply signaling that you have no diseases on board.

There is no requirement to.... and somewhat confusing underway....But nothing wrong with it.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pratique

However if you stop.... You do need to go thru entry formalities. The flag never excused you from that.