Newport, RI - Poole, England

[rgleason]

I have a timing question related to sailing from Newport, RI to Poole, England assuming a start on the first of June.
The boat is a 38' Shannon Pilothouse with double furling headsails and staysail with self-steering, 3 crew + supplies.

How long do you think it will take at that time of year?

We were thinking about possibly doing a very slight S shape to catch a part of the Gulf Stream and then take a Great Circle route to England.

I've done routing studies using Opencpn, Climatology and Weather_routing Plugins, and in Visual Passage Planner and have some information from those studies, but I would appreciate any knowledgeable thoughts from those who have traveled this route.

Why? Because I need to decide when to book flights back when I don't really know when we're going to get there!

What do other people do?
We were thinking maybe book slightly longer to leave room for unexpected weather, etc, and then just explore parts of England if we are there early. What other realistic options are there?

I still need a better (real) idea of how much time it will take in order to leave a reasonable period at the end for makeup or explore time.

Thanks.
Rick

[rgleason]

3100 nm @ 4 kn/hr x 24 = 96 nm, approximately 31 days. Is this to conservative?

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[skipmac]

Tough question and understand the concerns. If you wait until you get there to book your return flight you will get hammered for the ticket cost. On the other hand, it's a really bad idea to try to lock into a schedule sailing. It can lead to poor decision making and pushing on in marginal conditions trying to make your deadline.

Your estimate seems reasonable and I wouldn't say overly conservative or aggressive but can see no way to make it more accurate.

In your situation, assuming work or other needs in the US don't mandate immediate return is to stay and see the sights. There's some great cruising on the UK and Irish coasts. I would try to extend my stay as long as possible to take advantage.

[skipmac]

By the way, I owned a 32' cruiser for 7-8 years and the 100 nm/day rule of thumb for passages was what I used.

[rgleason]

Thanks skip Mc for your thoughts. Just a clarification, we're you thinking my estimate of 100 nm / day was for my 32' Bristol "Nell"? We are actually sailing a 38' pilothouse Shannon, with similar under body, full keel. Would the additional lol bump up the 100nm?

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[Suijin]

I agree that booking flights before you leave is a bad idea, in general. It could take you longer than 31 days, due to weather, breakdowns, or whatever, and then you'd be out the cost of the tickets anyway. And as mentioned, making a passage of that length to a schedule opens you up to doing things you should not to try and keep to it.

As soon as you get there, scour the internet for cheap fares back, plugging in different dates, and instead of going through the usual suspects of Orbitz, Expedia etc. do general searches on "flight Heathrow JFK" or whatever you're looking for. I got a flight through GetAwayASAP.com from Baltimore to Tenerife for $510 when all I could find through travel sites were $1800+. Of course, if you *have* to be back by a certain date, it makes it hard employ that strategy.

For a 38 shannon I would figure on 110 miles/day, but that's assuming you can continue to make progress along your course every day. That's far from guaranteed, particularly if you break something and need to put into Bermuda or the Azores.

[skipmac]

Yes I assumed the Bristol 32 and would go along with Sujin's suggestion of bumping the estimate to 110 or so.

But the miles/day is really only good as a rough estimate for passage planning, provisioning and such. I would never use it for scheduling anything important or lock myself into any kind of deadline, especially on a longer passage. On my 32 the 100 nm/day was a reasonable average over several years a few thousand miles but on one passage from USVI to FL I averaged about 150 nm/day. But that was downwind all the way with a good breeze the whole trip. There were trips that I was closer to 50 nm/day.

Considering the route you plan the winds and weather can vary a lot so won't be like planning a passage in the trade winds. I've made a few business trips to UK and Ireland and loved it. Plan some extra time to see the country. Also agree that online shopping for tickets after you arrive might find you a bargain trip home.

[Delancey]

We're making basically the same trip next July on a friend's boat. Our general plan was to allow four weeks for passage, plus two extra.

The thought is that if we get there early we're going cruising for a couple weeks or maybe going to visit some friends on the continent.

I haven't figured out what we're doing for the return flight but was thinking we would wait until right before our departure to make the purchase.

You mentioned the Gulf Stream, I have quite captivated since they added ocean currents to the Earth Wind Map, link below. Enjoy!

earth :: an animated map of global wind and weather

[rgleason]

That website with gulf stream is current condtions isn't it? Look at that big loop and the eddys further east.

Here's a routing using Opencpn Climatology and Weather_routing plugins by Sean Depagnier, some Shannon 38 Polars which have been adjusted downward according to experience with the boat, and we ended up with 20-21 days to go the 3100 nm based upon 30 years of NOAA wind and gulf stream data.. So it appears that it is too optimistic. Of course what we will see will be different, and determined by macro and micro conditions, only averaged by the Climatology plugin.

http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...ml#post1467371

[Delancey]

Earth Wind Map is a great resource. I understand the surface currents are updated every five days. The wind maps are updated every three hours. Here's the about page-

about earth

[rockDAWG]

When I do the delivery, I would never prebook my return flight. However, I use my SPOT and pre-program a message to tell my wife to book a ticket for me when I am close to the destination. Or, when I have a sat phone I will send a text message to my wife to arrange the flight travel. Hope this helps.

It is nice to have a support group on land to help out when you are in the middle of the ocean.

[rockDAWG]

Originally Posted by Delancey

Earth Wind Map is a great resource. I understand the surface currents are updated every five days. The wind maps are updated every three hours. Here's the about page-

about earth

I may be getting greedy. I wish they will do weather forecast too.

[Doug Brown]

I did a Virginia Beach to Iceland to Virginia Beach run on a container ship for 5-years. The whole secret to doing anything in the North Atlantic is to watch the weather. You literally live or die depending on what it is doing.

You want to get the Canadian or UK government weather print outs. Watch what is happening over the middle of Canada and Greenland as that is what will end up on top of you.

If you see a big low coming - and there are always lows coming across up in that neck of the woods - be sure that you are on the BOTTOM of it to get the best seas and the best winds.

One of the great photos that I have is running before 55-kts of wind in 25-ft seas on a bright sunny day. The containers acted as square sails and we picked up 2 to 3 kts of speed and our fuel consumption went down by 500-gallons a day!

Weather is usually good in the summer (June --> October) but in June/July you still stand a good chance of seeing icebergs from Cape Race over to the Iceland area. You will probably be far enough South that they will not be a problem, but look at the ice/iceberg charts just to make sure nothing is around.

Sea conditions can be from flat calm to +50-feet in size, and I saw them all. You don't want to be in anything over 25-ft in size in a yacht, so as mentioned earlier, WATCH THE WEATHER!!!!!!!

The air temperature is much warmer than you would think as the Gulf Stream does make it all the way to Cornwall, England. In the summer, you should have day temperatures between mid-50's to high 60's.

Once you get past Cape Race the ocean currents become pretty stable going from West to East, but from New Jersey over to Cape Race they could come from any direction due to all the eddies coming off the Gulf Stream.

Stick with the 100-miles a day number for trip planning and add on a week or so for a safety factor. Better to be early and wait around for the plane than to watch it fly off with you not on it!

Have a safe trip!

[CarlF]

Booking flights more than 3 days early on competitive routes like London-Boston doesn't gain you that much on price anymore. Try using Kayak for a bunch of different dates. You won't see much difference.

[CarlF]

While your Shannon is a fine boat, the windage of that big pilothouse will affect your miles per day if the wind comes forward of the beam.