Mexico, Violence and Safety

[JiffyLube]

Originally Posted by sww914

On the subject of corruption, I think it's cheaper to just pay the cop in Mexico than it is to show up in court and pay your fine in Ca. I think also that the mordita when building there is probably a lot cheaper than building permits, environmental impact reports, inspection fees, etc., and I think that paying off the local official when you run a business there must be cheaper than here. I have to pay a $640.00 annual welder permit for my shop to the city, it's a $400.00 welder.

I think corruption is bad, but wrongs in the name and letter of the law can be plenty wrong as well.

We can blame our legislature for the continued bad management of our state, and us for not voting them our years ago.

[JiffyLube]

Originally Posted by zeehag

many of those who sail to mexico from kali decide they dont want to sail uphill back bashing like clowns and soaking cold-- so they leave their boats in mexico with intention of... wtf... usually these boats go neglected then try to sell in 5 yrs. they take marina space and dry storage space until the locals tire of it and sell the boats. usually with the owners permission.
so..... want marina space??? lol... i dont.
marinas mean more gringos. yukkkk. tired of that. lemme see a place wherein we are not such a huge influence on the culture and economy. these places are becoming rarer and more isolated as folks ovrrun the "cool" places their friends brag on having been...

You don't like your fellow Americans very much huh. I admit I don't get real warm and fuzzy with everyone no matter where they come from, but I know many more nice 'gringos' (as you put it) than bad ones.

[zeehag]

Originally Posted by JiffyLube

You don't like your fellow Americans very much huh. I admit I don't get real warm and fuzzy with everyone no matter where they come from, but I know many more nice 'gringos' (as you put it) than bad ones.

i truly dislike what i see them turn into when they go traveling-- doesnt matter the form of travel. they become very ugly and ill tempered and ill mannered knowitall cretins.
granted there are nice folks in many places-- but the ones i have seen going into mexico and staying there in these gatherings of gringos with costco and wallys and all the things best left home--

[sv Winterlude]

We just returned from Panama to Florida in the spring 2010. We sailed into Isla Mujeres in April and stayed about three weeks. It's the 2nd time we spent time there - the first was in the fall of 2004. It didn't feel any different. If we hadn't had the news, we would have had no idea there was an issue with safety in Mexico.

Personally, it seems you're over-reacting, there are incidents everywhere, including in Mexico. On the other hand, you need to go with your gut and if your gut says don't go there, don't go. Go somewhere else. The beauty of cruising is there are gazillions of places to explore.

Cheers! Jan

[Brob2]

Originally Posted by zeehag

i truly dislike what i see them turn into when they go traveling-- doesnt matter the form of travel. they become very ugly and ill tempered and ill mannered knowitall cretins

I will forever remember the patio lunch I had a restaurant in Provence. Three tables, ours and 2 other (I assumed American) couples. One pair was very nice I must say, but the other pair was rude and demanding to the waiters, extremely loud with complaints over the rareness of their steak tartare, and annoyingly intrusive as we and the other couple ate. No wonder Americans get such a sour reputation abroad.

Oh yes, I later learned the 'nice' couple were Bostonians and the obnoxious pair Torontonian. Yeah Canada.

[sww914]

Originally Posted by JiffyLube

We can blame our legislature for the continued bad management of our state, and us for not voting them our years ago.

Feels like time for a rev o lution to me, but it's gonna be up to y'all because I'll be somewhere else. Bureaucracy doesn't ever use the - sign, just the + sign.
I think maybe it would help if we could vote no.
Not trying to get political, just subversive.

[sww914]

Originally Posted by Brob2

I will forever remember the patio lunch I had a restaurant in Provence. Three tables, ours and 2 other (I assumed American) couples. One pair was very nice I must say, but the other pair was rude and demanding to the waiters, extremely loud with complaints over the rareness of their steak tartare, and annoyingly intrusive as we and the other couple ate. No wonder Americans get such a sour reputation abroad.

Oh yes, I later learned the 'nice' couple were Bostonians and the obnoxious pair Torontonian. Yeah Canada.

Do you think that the Ugly Americans are equally ugly at home? I'd ask their gardener or maid to get the truth. Some people go around everywhere treating folks like they're the farm help. We get a lot of that in tourists here, we're on the coast closest to the world's most productive agricultural area and a lot of those rich farmers that come to visit are accustomed to ordering people around. I've found that asking kindly gets great results.
Personally, I take requests much better than I take orders...

[TaoJones]

Originally Posted by Brob2

. . . the other pair was rude and demanding to the waiters, extremely loud with complaints over the rareness of their steak tartare, and annoyingly intrusive as we and the other couple ate.

Uhm . . . not to put too fine a point on it, but I don't understand how anyone can complain about the "rareness" of a dish that is, quite literally, raw meat - without being laughed out of the restaurant . . . or stabbed in the throat by an outraged French chef!

TaoJones

[zeehag]

Originally Posted by TaoJones

Uhm . . . not to put too fine a point on it, but I don't understand how anyone can complain about the "rareness" of a dish that is, quite literally, raw meat - without being laughed out of the restaurant . . . or stabbed in the throat by an outraged French chef!

TaoJones

exactly!!!

[vintageray]

Funny, when I wrote a post about a popular tourist bar in Cancun being fire bombed last month, it was immediately removed by a moderator. Let's see if this one stays up. I lived in Mexico and traveled all over the country for 8 yrs. Felt pretty safe and comfortable most of the time even in some pretty rough areas. That was several years ago. My last trip in Nov. 2009 was quite different. I saw gun battles, slept on the floor because of bullets flying around. There are false road blocks, car jackings, killings and kidnappings, not only in the border region. Google Mexico violence and see what comes up and bear in mind that there is a news blackout and what you read is only a hint of what's going on down there. Mexico is currently the most dangerous country in the world for journalists. Americans feel that they travel in Mexico with some kind of aura around them. I think their opinion changes after they're dragged out of their vehicle and find themselves on the ground with a boot on their neck and a rifle barrel pointed at their head. An american Border Patrol Agent told me that I was crazy to go down there and it wasn't a question of whether something really bad was going to happen to me if I continued these visits, but only a matter of when.
At least google it and read before stating how safe and lovely it is down there. More people being killed than in Iraq and Afghanistan combined and since the election in 2006, closing in on the number that we lost in Viet Nam in the same length of time.
They are in a state of civil war down there.

[Brob2]

Originally Posted by TaoJones

Uhm . . . not to put too fine a point on it, but I don't understand how anyone can complain about the "rareness" of a dish that is, quite literally, raw meat - without being laughed out of the restaurant . . . or stabbed in the throat by an outraged French chef!

TaoJones

It was funny afterward but watching it unfold made me squirm and more than a little embarrassed. I wanted to stab him myself.

We returned to that place 3 times over three weeks there and on the last visit were treated to round after round of 'au gratis' Pastis for becoming 'regulars'. So much for the surliness of French service.

And now, back to your regular programming....

[JiffyLube]

Originally Posted by Brob2

I will forever remember the patio lunch I had a restaurant in Provence. Three tables, ours and 2 other (I assumed American) couples. One pair was very nice I must say, but the other pair was rude and demanding to the waiters, extremely loud with complaints over the rareness of their steak tartare, and annoyingly intrusive as we and the other couple ate. No wonder Americans get such a sour reputation abroad.

Oh yes, I later learned the 'nice' couple were Bostonians and the obnoxious pair Torontonian. Yeah Canada.

So we got blamed for the Canadians huh. What about ugly Canadians.

[Brob2]

Originally Posted by JiffyLube

So we got blamed for the Canadians huh. What about ugly Canadians.

uh, that was my point?!

back to topic. Don't go to Mexico. Come to Nova Scotia. No fog Better sailing.

[LakeSuperior]

Originally Posted by rgscpat

Mexico is quite dangerous in some spots; it has something like half the violent death rate of the USA, and some parts of Mexico are as dangerous as some bad parts of the USA. Certainly I'd not want to spend my evenings in Cuidad Juarez, Tiajuana, or some of the lonelier stretches along the Texas border. Compared to someplace like Switzerland, Mexico is acutely hazardous. Mexico only looks safe in comparison to violence-plagued countries such as the United States of America.

Latest Lat 38 on-line: "For Mexico as a whole, the death-by-firearms rate for the first half of ‘10 was 5.36 per 100,000. For the United States as a whole, it was 10.2 per 100,000 — or nearly twice as high! "

Not sure what data you are referring to here but from the United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime the intentional homicide rate for 2008 in the United States is 5.2 per 100,000. The rate for Mexico, same year, is 11.6 per 100,000.

According to the papers the homicide rate dropped in 2009 for the US. Not sure what happened in 2009 in Mexico but their 2008 rate is more than double the US.

These rates are intentional homicides by any weapon which is really the number to pay attention to because the long run (or short term) it doesn't much matter what weapon is used for murder.

For your information the homicide rate in Venezuela is 47.2 people per 100,000. Check the homicide rates for Caribbean countries in this table, they are shocking.

See http://www.unodc.org/documents/data-...y.20100201.xls

[jackiepitts]

OK I want to hear the rate of death per 100,000 people by automobile...airplane...and man eating dogs in both the U.S. and Mexico? Oh what the heck throw in the Caribbean and Venezuela while your at it. This way I can make a informed decision on where my odds of staying alive are best.
This is really getting funny.