Mexico, Violence and Safety

[rgscpat]

<<Even if the odds of getting killed by accident have only risen to 1 in 500,000 I still wouldn't want to take that bet. >>

Does that mean you fear to remain in the USA?

[Walt]

My family and I were in Puerto Morelos in July. We had absolutely no problems.


I don't have a lot of wealth to share, so I think I'll squander what I do have on chics and booze.

[LakeSuperior]

Originally Posted by Bash

This is perhaps the most skewed logic I've ever seen on Cruiser's Forum. Mexico hosts more than five million tourists every year from the United States alone. If 2% of those tourists were murdered annually, that would mean that more that 100,000 American tourists would be killed south of the border each year. This would nearly equate the annual casualty rate of the US military during World War ii.

Sorry, but that's just a bizarre argument. Do the math.

No need to get your nickers in a twist. Substitute any country for Mexico. It was a thought experiment to show that somewhere between 0 murders per 100,000 and some high number of murders per 100,000 there is the threshold, where a go decision turns into a no-go decision. I respectfully submit that even for you Bash there is a violence level that would turn you back.

You wouldn't know this but much of Albert Einteins world changing physics was accomplished using thought experiments. It is a proven approach to problem solving.

As far as armchair sailing I just finished phase I, the Great Lakes to Europe of the North Atlantic circle route. Halifax to Ireland in 19 days three hours but who was keeping track. Our original destination was Oban but a parade of lows keep us south. Went up the West coast of Ireland to Scotland. It was magic and spectacular. Will return to continue our voyage in the spring.

The West coast of Ireland was rugged with fewer cruisers than Lake Superior. The Irish may be the most friendly people on the planet with the Scots second. We found that most actually like Americans (or were good at hiding any dislike.)

All on board were Great Lakes sailors with little ocean experience. Needless to say the Atlantic crossing experience is a revelation. Parden the thread drift...

[Therapy]

Originally Posted by Bash

This is perhaps the most skewed logic I've ever seen on Cruiser's Forum. Mexico hosts more than five million tourists every year from the United States alone. If 2% of those tourists were murdered annually, that would mean that more that 100,000 American tourists would be killed south of the border each year. This would nearly equate the annual casualty rate of the US military during World War ii.

Sorry, but that's just a bizarre argument. Do the math.

Dang!
That is a lot.
I wonder how many of those are just hopping across for short time to score some smack.
They can't buy property.

[jackiepitts]

As we are sitting here talking about crime in Mexico and how out of control some seem to think it is I have to relay a incident that happened right here in Mazatlan (yes that is Sinaloa) the other day to us while shopping.
We had made our regular weekly trip by bus to Mega to pick up some groceries and then planned to walk over to Sams Club for a few more things. After shopping at Mega we took the grocery cart downstairs and proceeded to pack our backpacks with groceries. I set my large red wallet full of all my credit cards, drivers license, and approx 3500 pesos in the cart thinking I would set it on the top of the back pack after all the groceries were put in but in the rush to get going to the next store forgot to put it in the backpack and walked away leaving my wallet sitting in plain sight in the grocery cart in a busy Mexican parking lot. We then walked approx. 1/2 mile to Sams club and proceeded to do shopping, basically a whole hour passed when we got on line to pay for the groceries and realized that my wallet was missing. I knew right away what I had done so hubby ran back in hopes of finding some of what was left of my wallet at Mega. I have to tell you we both thought it was gone for good. Hubby was looking frantically through the shopping carts when a young man of approx. 20 years old comes up and asks him if he was looking for a wallet (in Spanish of course) and signals him to follow him to the store guard where he hands him the wallet fully in tack (the money was not touched). It seems this young man that probably makes 15 dollars day saw the wallet and turned it in immediately to the guard. I wonder if the same would have happened in the US? I have to say we were impressed by this kids honesty and it renews our faith in a country that gets a pretty bad rap in our opinion.
Just thought I would pass along this positive experience since mostly what we have been hearing is negative.
Jackie

[John A]

jackiepitts,

Thank for giving us an account of your experiences in Mexico. During my sail down the west coast of Mexico, my most frustrating times were dealing with people from the US.

[jyoung]

mexico is a sleazy pit that is so much fun to play in, just stay out of the typical "high crime" areas..such as whore houses, strip clubs etc...juarez is in a mess right now because of the drug cartels, but other than that just keep with your loved ones to avoid kidnapping... been down there many times with no problems, met alot of nice people.

to everyone else: whats with all the bashing of americans? what did i ever do to you people?

[jyoung]

i feel for this guy, he obviously does not live in kansas, because we dont act like that around here

[CAELESTIS]

This is starting to sound like a Mexican anchor thread. With enough scope you can avoid violence.

[sck5]

people must be geographically challenged not to be able to understand that though "Mexico" has a violence problem, it is a very big country and the violence is very concentrated along the border.

Would you avoid going to Chesapeake Bay because there are a lot of murders in Chicago?

[capn_billl]

Well put Jackie. There are good people everywhere, thats why I like to travel to meet them and learn about their cultures. We can't hold the Mexican people accountable for the actions of a few powerful corrupt factions that are every bit as troublesome to the average Joe, (Josie) just trying to support his family, and stay clear of trouble.

[aquarian]

I have spent a good bit of time in Mexico and have native relatives still there. I found the people to be awesome - especially mine, and the government to be pretty dang corrupt. However, my concern stems from incidents that I encountered in the US (anchored off of a FL state park) and involving folks who looked and sounded an aweful lot like my relatives. I watched illegal immigrants enter the the US with a lot of baggage (don't know what was in it). I watched others attempt to board my boat while I was ashore. I reported this to the Coast Guard, the State Park system, and the FBI. I returned to the same local the next year and it was still going on. So much for our, US, government keeping the peace.
Both times we were there about a week, and niether time did anyone bother us other than the boat boarding incident. I got the feeling that they really didin't care about us as long as we didn't interfere - but they did seem interested in the "unattended" boat. I should add that after the fact and with better knowledge of the area and what was going on, when our boat was approached, we were anchored in a marked area. I believe they marked it, and we were in the wrong place at the wrong time.
All of that said. I would plan and travel carefully - mainly to stay out of the way of those making a dishonest living.

[xxuxx]

Originally Posted by capt_douglas

I've had zero problems in Mexico, either as delivery skipper or cruiser. There are places in each port that one has to avoid and most of those can be gleaned from talking to other cruisers, marina staff, or simply not venturing into back streets after dark.

The vast majority of Mexicans I've met and spent time with are generous, fun loving, and respectful. They also understand the situation, possibly better than you do. They live there 24/7 and you're just passing through. If you decide to write off Mexico, or any country, because of random acts of violence, IMO, you will miss out on some fantastic cruising grounds, incredible cultural diversity, and a wealth of understanding.

Listen to this man. I have driven across the length of Mexico 7 times alone without incident. Use common sense and do not flaunt your American ways and values in another country. Be respectful, alert and kind and you will not have a problem.

[jackiepitts]

Originally Posted by aquarian

I have spent a good bit of time in Mexico and have native relatives still there. I found the people to be awesome - especially mine, and the government to be pretty dang corrupt. However, my concern stems from incidents that I encountered in the US (anchored off of a FL state park) and involving folks who looked and sounded an aweful lot like my relatives. I watched illegal immigrants enter the the US with a lot of baggage (don't know what was in it). I watched others attempt to board my boat while I was ashore. I reported this to the Coast Guard, the State Park system, and the FBI. I returned to the same local the next year and it was still going on. So much for our, US, government keeping the peace.
Both times we were there about a week, and niether time did anyone bother us other than the boat boarding incident. I got the feeling that they really didin't care about us as long as we didn't interfere - but they did seem interested in the "unattended" boat. I should add that after the fact and with better knowledge of the area and what was going on, when our boat was approached, we were anchored in a marked area. I believe they marked it, and we were in the wrong place at the wrong time.
All of that said. I would plan and travel carefully - mainly to stay out of the way of those making a dishonest living.

Ummm isn't this about Mexico? Why the story about Florida? Am I missing something?

[xxuxx]

Originally Posted by aquarian

I have spent a good bit of time in Mexico and have native relatives still there. I found the people to be awesome - especially mine, and the government to be pretty dang corrupt. However, my concern stems from incidents that I encountered in the US (anchored off of a FL state park) and involving folks who looked and sounded an aweful lot like my relatives. I watched illegal immigrants enter the the US with a lot of baggage (don't know what was in it). I watched others attempt to board my boat while I was ashore. I reported this to the Coast Guard, the State Park system, and the FBI. I returned to the same local the next year and it was still going on. So much for our, US, government keeping the peace.
Both times we were there about a week, and niether time did anyone bother us other than the boat boarding incident. I got the feeling that they really didin't care about us as long as we didn't interfere - but they did seem interested in the "unattended" boat. I should add that after the fact and with better knowledge of the area and what was going on, when our boat was approached, we were anchored in a marked area. I believe they marked it, and we were in the wrong place at the wrong time.
All of that said. I would plan and travel carefully - mainly to stay out of the way of those making a dishonest living.

So Aquarian....you couldn't lend a hand to help these people??? Do you have any idea of what they have gone through to come here or are you going to take the route of saying they have no visa, hence they are breaking the law? Do you have have any F'ing...idea of what they went through to get here??? Or that they were denied a visa after paying half of their salary just for the right to apply for one? Your ignorance of humanity is not alone....many cruisers and US citizens have no idea of what it is like to live in poverty.. You can visit thier country, but they cannot visit yours? Is that fair? All they want is to care for their family.
Wake up and open your eyes to life in central America!!! You want to sail there, why not help those you visit.?