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24-12-2012, 19:35
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#91
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Boston, MA
Boat: Beneteau Oceanis 43 & S2 6.9
Posts: 969
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Re: In Prison in St Lucia
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pelagic
Why would you give away secrets, weaknesses, opinions and dissent to the enemy?
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I think more than anything, the above is being given away to other boaters/cruisers who want to better secure their boats.
While it's possible, I doubt there are many here lurking just to find someone has weak security hoping to pillage their boat. Not to mention the odds of the seeing information that would help and then also seeing that same boat in the location they are in is even smaller.
As someone who is planning to cruise in the future, I'm all for seeing more info on how to better secure the boat.
Thanks Mark - Love your Method!
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24-12-2012, 19:59
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#92
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CF Adviser
Join Date: Oct 2007
Boat: Van Helleman Schooner 65ft StarGazer
Posts: 10,280
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Re: In Prison in St Lucia
Mark's Gate is a great idea, but it is not what I am talking about
There are more subtle ways to do your research on real security options
Would you go on the internet to discuss the best ‘password’ to use? Or where to keep a safe in your house?
The enemy are just as smart as us, watching and studying trends for opportunistic attacks….
Think of the basic catalyst of ‘Fear’ in any horror movie…. It is the fear of the unknown!!
Publically talking up or down Guns/Security takes that advantage away. That is all (and the last) I am saying about this.
best of luck to the guy in St Lucia
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24-12-2012, 22:10
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#93
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cruiser
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Seattle
Posts: 1,129
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Re: In Prison in St Lucia
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenomac
Basically.. it's better to be judged by 12, than to be carried by 6.
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The only folks who believe this are folks who are unfamiliar with life in a supermax.
The only way it's true is if the 12 come back with "not guilty". (Which is, by the way, not the same as "innocent".)
Under many circumstances, I'll take the 6, and the day my appeals run out will be my last day alive.
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24-12-2012, 23:13
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#94
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 1,315
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Re: In Prison in St Lucia
Quote:
Originally Posted by maytrix
As someone who is planning to cruise in the future, I'm all for seeing more info on how to better secure the boat.
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http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...lry-25655.html
Also you can search “Jewellery” and you will know what not to do.
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24-12-2012, 23:48
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#95
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Fethiye Turkey
Boat: Lagoon 440
Posts: 2,954
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Re: In Prison in St Lucia
This is a Cruisers Forum and i think some members should take note that their comments are read by all kinds of interested persons at various CRUISERS destinations around the world.
It's not helpful for Cruisers to have these 'Gung-Ho' attitudes in the public domain, so many of these dumb 'i woulds' and 'you should' aggressive comments build an undeserved profile to people visiting foreign ports. This profile that others build can cause much suspicion on innocent parties.
It would be more helpful for some to remember their comments are in a public domain/out there....
When in a foreign country you are under their laws it doesn't matter who you think you are or where your from. This instance of detainment may be the result of a mortal wound inflicted by the yachtie or something entirely obtuse we simple do not know.
Someone is dead and someone caused it the rest is subject to court, the best we can do is observe and hope for fair justice whichever way that leads...
__________________
"Political correctness is a creeping sickness that knows no boundaries"
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25-12-2012, 03:08
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#96
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Registered User
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Guatemala and Caribbean
Boat: Seafarer 38 cutter rigged
Posts: 286
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Re: In Prison in St Lucia
Deaths in foreign countries where a visitor is involved is treated differently/cautiously by the local police.
My father years ago, was doing contract work in China and my mother flew out of Toronto to visit him. Her first night there she had a stroke and died in bed. Cops treated him like a murder suspect until the autopsy proved the cause of her death. He wasn't imprisoned or anything, just had a police escort for a few days.
The Canadian Consulate there had employed a local to help my dad through the burocracy(sp?). Things went as smooth as expected under the circumstances.
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25-12-2012, 04:30
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#97
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Cruising NC, FL, Bahamas, TCI & VIs
Boat: 1964 Pearson Ariel 'Faith' / Pearson 424, sv Emerald Tide
Posts: 1,531
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Re: In Prison in St Lucia
Reading this thread, laying at anchor off a tropical island in the Caribbean on Christmas morning, it occurs to me that even my peers (or is it just the armchair "Sailors"?) do not believe I have the duty to my ship to defend her and her crew...
It is a strange world, this current "enlightened" ethos has created. I suppose the locals are to come aboard, take what they want (including doing as they please with female crew members?) and I am to consent to this?
May it never be that I have to, but I shall never concent to such a thing. IMHO no one worthy of the title "Captain" ever would.
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25-12-2012, 06:14
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#99
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Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Punta Gorda, Fl
Boat: Endeavourcat Sailcat 44
Posts: 3,173
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Re: In Prison in St Lucia
I suspect that there must be more to this story than is in the press. If we are to understand the locals St. Lucia law is based on English common law which clearly distinguishes between the crimes of manslaughter and murder. It would seem at worst he might be charged with manslaughter given the reported circumstances. In the case of boatman's example if he killed the mugger as a direct action then he might be charged with manslaughter, but where does the victims responsibility for the safety of the mugger end? If the mugger decides he's he's not getting the best of the victim and runs away but subsequently falls and hits head and dies, is the victim still charged with manslaughter? If we might look at the example of Somali pirates. It is a common suggestion for commercial ships to repel borders with water canons. If one of those borders is a poor swimmer and falls into the water and drowns, is the captain and crew of the commercial ship now charged with murder? What if the boarding is successfully repeled but later the pirate vessel sinks in a storm at sea. Is the captain charged with murder because he didn't let his vessel be hijacked and allow the pirates refuge on a more seaworthy vessel? It just seems to me that there must be more to this story which I guess we won't learn of until the trial.
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25-12-2012, 06:35
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#100
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Tempe, AZ
Posts: 64
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Re: In Prison in St Lucia
Quote:
Originally Posted by Teles
In creating this thread I wished to give information to all boat-cruisers in the Caribbean (and other areas) on what can happen to any of us. The facts are relatively clear, and denied by nobody, including St Lucia officials we watched on TV news. As far as we know, there is no other version, except that Sommer is sued for murder. This circumnavigator was emprisoned after he was attacked on his boat and one thief died ashore after swimming from the attacked boat. He is in jail in reportedly unacceptable conditions, without a trial or a sustained accusation after 8 months.
The question is not to criticize or denigrate justice in this country. It is only to let know Eric Sommer, as well as local authorities, that he is not alone and that the cruisers' community is watching them and is very concerned about the incoming procedure. I think we would appreciate this in his situation.
I hope this thread will remain active and I'll give any new information I get from French or local sources. Thanks to all contributors.
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Yes & thank you for your information.
This is obviously a sensitive event & has good arguments all around.
May I make a recommendation, start a new thread titled "ST. Lucia prison topic, info only", or something to that effect. That way we can follow without getting sidetrak-ed. Also add in the body, "this thread is for specific info only, no side comments" or words to that effect.
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25-12-2012, 07:10
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#102
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Marine Service Provider
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: north carolina
Boat: command yachtsdouglas32
Posts: 3,113
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Re: In Prison in St Lucia
Are there folks that think if they wake up at 3 in the mourning and a man is standing in there boat with your tv in his arms and a knife is sticking out of his back pocket that you have the right to kill him? I belive someone else has already said"It is against the law to shoot people"..Now if this thug drops the TV and grabs the knife I think you are allowed to "Protect yourself" if you fear for your life...In some places you are still going to be arrested until Juris Prudence runs its course..
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25-12-2012, 07:33
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#103
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cruiser
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Pangaea
Posts: 10,856
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Re: In Prison in St Lucia
Quote:
Originally Posted by tropicalescape
Are there folks that think if they wake up at 3 in the mourning and a man is standing in there boat with your tv in his arms and a knife is sticking out of his back pocket that you have the right to kill him?
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Yes, no hesitation or guilt. The TV and the thief's life is of no concern, only the safety of crew and self, in that order. You don't know what his intentions are.
If the thief was on deck and turned and ran away... that's a different situation altogether... he hasn't invaded our home. He would be chased and held, as my wife and I have done several times over the years. No armchair analysis here. Turn, run, hide, smile and shake his hand, cowar and beg or bargain for our lives... NEVER.
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25-12-2012, 08:05
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#104
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Registered User
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Pensacola, FL
Boat: 1969 Roamer ChrisCraft, Riveria, 46'
Posts: 133
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Having been boarded at 3 am by a thief that I confronted in the main cabin while my wife hid in the head, I can state unequivically that I had no concern for his motives. I naturally assumed after the effort he went through to get there that his motives were sinister and I was prepared to kill him to defend my crew.
The flood of adrenaline as you size up an opponent in the dark to determine if you can beat him to death with your own hands is not something I would like to repeat.
Luckily all it took was a brief confrontation to scare the guy off, so I feel for this sailor having been in a similar situation.
It took months before I could sleep comfortably again, but that night is always lingering in the back of my mind.
Later,
NJ
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25-12-2012, 08:05
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#105
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Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Naples, FL
Boat: Beneteau Oceanis 400
Posts: 669
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Re: In Prison in St Lucia
It certainly seems like there should be more to this story than we know now, but maybe not. Has anyone heard the story about the marine that got arrested in Mexico for bringing a gun into the country. He was put in jail for a seemingly minor offence. The family then got on the ball and tried to get him out. His family was also told to go through the standard chanels, to keep this low key, to have the best chances for release. After a short and frustrating time, the family had enough and put it out to the press. I have to give the press credit on this one, they got on board and within a few days, the Marine was on his way home.
The Marine had a support system, in a family then the US press. If this guy's story is not more complicatedd then what has been reported, then I would hope that someone would be screeming from the hill tops to get me out.
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