In Prison in St Lucia

[Morgan3820]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

I don't understand the " defends ones self and chase down the bad guys ". In English common law and its derivatives, you do not in general have an absolute right to " unreasonable force". Hence any ( repeat any ) action that results in a death will must likely land you in court, so that the "reasonable nature" of that defence action can be decided on . Many states also do not recognise a boat as your " castle " rather its comes under means of transport laws. It's not surprising there is a charge and no doubt a court will decide it the defendants actions led to the death of the burglar. ( its not clear I'd he was a burglar. )

You must set aside the idea that just because someone boards your boat, you then have the right to act in any way you see fit. You simply don't have that right.

Dave

Here in North Carolina, someone who forcefully enters your home, place of business or car is assumed to have 'felonoius intent' and the victim is allowed to use whatever means available to stop the assault. The intruder does not need to have a weapon. I am glad that in NC I do not have to second guess my actions in the event I have to defend my family. I'll look to John Wayne for my guidence, not Jane Fonda or Lady Gaga.

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by Patient

It is quite ridiculous that Mr. Sommer is in jail right now for defending his property and potentially his life. A right that St. Lucians seem to take seriously and that is an understatement.

St. Lucia is very unique when it comes to self-defense. You see, St. Lucia is one of only seventeen countries in the entire world, that has the "right to self defense" constitutionalized, rather than just part of an evolving judicial system. Their Constitution is not that large either, only 18 sections, which makes the emphasis on self-defense just that much more potent.

From St. Lucia's Constitution itself:

Now think about that for a minute.

Self-defense is so important to the St. Lucians that they chose to include it in their Constitution. So, from a legal perspective, there's no case law to browse through, no law review to cite, no existing cases involving castle-doctrine to argue for or against. You instead have clear and defined language in your country's own constitution that declares that a death as result of protection of property exonerates you from liability. It honestly could not be more defined anywhere else in the world, that Mr. Sommers has the right to take ones life to protect his property, even if it was with his own bare hands.

...but he has been sitting in jail since June and some of you think that makes perfect sense.

He does not have the right to take another's life. He has the right to reasonable force. That is what the court will decide.

Dave

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by Morgan3820

Here in North Carolina, someone who forcefully enters your home, place of business or car is assumed to have 'felonoius intent' and the victim is allowed to use whatever means available to stop the assault. The intruder does not need to have a weapon. I am glad that in NC I do not have to second guess my actions in the event I have to defend my family. I'll look to John Wayne for my guidence, not Jane Fonda or Lady Gaga.

And their my friends is the problem with the gun lobby in the US. Film stars !!


Keep that attitude to NC please. It doesn't apply elsewhere outside the US. This didnt happen in the US.
Dave

[GordMay]

The Saint Lucia Constitution, as previously (accurately*) quoted by Patient (Post 112)

Specifically, Chapter 1, Section 2:

Protection of Fundamental Rights and Freedoms ➥ The Saint Lucia Constitution

Or ➥ http://www.csastlucia.org/docs/Const...aint_Lucia.pdf

* Though the Constitution is MUCH longer than 18 Sections. Chapter 1 contains 18 Sections.

[MarkJ]

Late one night in the Caribbean I was dinghying home from a bar that sold me a BAD beer and I was feeling a little worse for wear...

I motored up to the stern of the boat and, as usual, cut my engine a ways off to gently drift to the swim platform. As I touched the swim platform I noticed it did need a bit of a clean, being the fastidious cleanliness feller I am, about that time I noticed I must have rearranged the winches in cockpit, and indeed at some time unknown rearranged the whole cockpit. As I was admiring my taste in cushions someone climbed out of the compainionway and asked what I was doing! I told him to get off my boat!

Thank God he wasnt a gun toter.

[Rocketman]

Originally Posted by MarkJ

Late one night in the Caribbean I was dinghying home from a bar that sold me a BAD beer and I was feeling a little worse for wear...

I motored up to the stern of the boat and, as usual, cut my engine a ways off to gently drift to the swim platform. As I touched the swim platform I noticed it did need a bit of a clean, being the fastidious cleanliness feller I am, about that time I noticed I must have rearranged the winches in cockpit, and indeed at some time unknown rearranged the whole cockpit. As I was admiring my taste in cushions someone climbed out of the compainionway and asked what I was doing! I told him to get off my boat!

Thank God he wasnt a gun toter.

He might have been a so called gun toter, in the condition you describe that you were in, you probably wouldn't have noticed if the guy had a gun or not.
Also how did this tread become about guns again, there is no report that the guy sitting in jail had a gun or used one in any way. I know that everone wants there to be no guns or everyone should have one. Mean while we argue about guns and the guy who seemingly did nothing wrong except defend his property WITHOUT a gun, sits in jail.

[Wotname]

Originally Posted by MarkJ

Late one night in the Caribbean I was dinghying home from a bar that sold me a BAD beer and I was feeling a little worse for wear...

I motored up to the stern of the boat and, as usual, cut my engine a ways off to gently drift to the swim platform. As I touched the swim platform I noticed it did need a bit of a clean, being the fastidious cleanliness feller I am, about that time I noticed I must have rearranged the winches in cockpit, and indeed at some time unknown rearranged the whole cockpit. As I was admiring my taste in cushions someone climbed out of the compainionway and asked what I was doing! I told him to get off my boat!

Thank God he wasnt a gun toter.

Thread drift alert!
Now I do find this funny, did you take long to sober up and find your own boat; did he find it funny and offer you a beer and a chat - I might have done in the circumstance.

OK back to St Lucia and the accursed!

[Wotname]

Originally Posted by Rocketman

He might have been a so called gun toter, in the condition you describe that you were in, you probably wouldn't have noticed if the guy had a gun or not.
Also how did this tread become about guns again, there is no report that the guy sitting in jail had a gun or used one in any way. I know that everone wants there to be no guns or everyone should have one. Mean while we argue about guns and the guy who seemingly did nothing wrong except defend his property WITHOUT a gun, sits in jail.

Err... he might have killed someone in doing so, doesn't that worry you a bit.

But I am mainly in the group of "we don't know WTF happened but someone is dead"; let's hope the law will resolve the reason for the death and justice (if required) is applied fairly.

The bigger issue to my mind, is the delay in delivering a trial and verdict but I note that St Lucia is probably no different than most other countries in this regard.

[svBeBe]

Originally Posted by capngeo

Just reminds me that there is another place I'll cross off my list of places to visit

We crossed St. Lucia off our list of places to visit in the EC several years ago. Been there 4 times; 1984, 1986, 2006 and 2007. Never again. Even the beautiful Pitons don't make it worth stopping there and dealing with the hostile locals. Just my opinion; others seem to love the place. I don't know why the ARC chooses to land there.

Judy

[MarkJ]

Remand duration for NSW, Australia 1998

More than 6 months less than 12 months 14% of those remanded
Over 12 months 10% of those remanded.
Table 2 http://www.aic.gov.au/documents/1/D/...22%7Dti172.pdf

One would think the more serious the charges the longer the remand time. I cant find stats for NSW for the time between arrest and hearing for murder, but I have some though its about 14 months average. I dont know if thats based on any fact, or just a feeling. The newspaper report of an arrest and the sentence hearing the next year...

So Sommer may be in for quite some time. Its a long time to go crazy... And very expensive for the family.

[neilpride]

Can i ask why Australia is related with this isue??

[Wotname]

Originally Posted by MarkJ

Remand duration for NSW, Australia 1998

More than 6 months less than 12 months 14% of those remanded
Over 12 months 10% of those remanded.
Table 2 http://www.aic.gov.au/documents/1/D/...22%7Dti172.pdf

One would think the more serious the charges the longer the remand time. I cant find stats for NSW for the time between arrest and hearing for murder, but I have some though its about 14 months average. I dont know if thats based on any fact, or just a feeling. The newspaper report of an arrest and the sentence hearing the next year...

So Sommer may be in for quite some time. Its a long time to go crazy... And very expensive for the family.

I don't have the figures but gut feeling tells me the time has blown out much more over the past 14 years. Locally the remand time for murder / manslaughter seems to be 2+ years.

No way (guilty or not) can long remand times be considered fair or just.

[Wotname]

Originally Posted by neilpride

Can i ask why Australia is related with this isue??

Err... say some more

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by neilpride

Can i ask why Australia is related with this isue??

I believe it was presented as an minimum example of how long the guy could expect to be held for without bail before the full trial came up...
But I could be wrong...

[maytrix]

Perhaps one thing we can learn from this is that if you do encounter someone on your boat or trying to board your boat and do repel them, that you should probably contact the authorities.

Had he contacted them, it may have changed the appearance of the incident in the eyes of the authorities. Furthermore, its probably always best not to say any more than you need to when speaking to the police.