Help! West Coast Sailor in Florida

[Exctyengr]

OK, so my adult son just bought a Catalina 36 mkII in West Palm Beach, FL and wants me to help him move it to Key West Naval Air Station Marina. Plan is to move it the first week in Jan 23.
I am a West Coast Sailor (SoCal and PNW) but reasonably experienced. So need some local knowledge here: ICW or outside? ICW looks like a lot of bridges and some perhaps confusing navigation; Outside looks like challenges with the Gulf Stream and an opposing wind?
Thoughts on which route and perhaps stops would be appreciated.

[Snore]

If the winds is anything but SE, a cold front is in play. Winds SW, front about 1-2 days out. Wind NW front less than 24 hours away. Wind N-NE in a cold front. Now the question is, how bad is it? Don't wig out if the NE winds are 10 kts. You may get some good size rollers, but nothing that too bad for a 36. Note, scoot between the GS and the coast in +/- 60' of water.

If there are any doubts about the boat- take the ICW to Ft Lauderdale then pop out. DO NOT take Boca or Hillsboro Inlet, both require extensive local knowledge.

From Ft Lauderdale it is a long hop to Hawk Channel and then down Hawk to the NAS. Be advised that depending on what areas are open for crabbing, there cold be as many as 4.6 bazillion ^2 crab pots or none in Hawk. But once you get into Hawk, there are numerous spots to drop a hook and a few marinas that are easy in/out for fuel.

[Wolfe10]

What is draft? That will determine if the ICW is a viable option in the northern keys.

[chubby]

Originally Posted by Wolfe10

What is draft? That will determine if the ICW is a viable option in the northern keys.

a Catalina 36 mkII should be less than 6ft

[jkishel]

The ICW south of Palm Beach to Miami has many, many drawbridges, so the outside route is much faster and easier. Stay within a mile or two of shore and you will stay out of the Gulf Stream for the most part (the west edge of the stream can get close to shore near Palm Beach where you may experience a knot or so of current on the nose until you get further south).

South of Miami there are two options; Hawk Channel between the reef and the Keys, and east of the reef between the reef and the Gulf Stream. Take Hawk Channel if you want to stop along the way, take the eastern route if you want to sail through the night and the sea state is favorable. The ICW itself gets too shallow for a C36 west of Blackwater Sound.

Potential stops from Palm Beach to NAS Key West include:

Hillsboro Inlet - anchor east of the bridge
Ft. Lauderdale
Miami - several options including Fisher Island, Marine Stadium, No Name, etc.
Caesar Creek
Angelfish Creek
Rodriguez Key
Indian Key - in settled weather
Long Key
Marathon
Newfound Harbor

A common itinerary is:

Palm Beach to Miami about 60 NM
Miami to Rodriguez Key about 50 NM
Rodriguez Key to Marathon about 50 NM
Marathon to Key West about 50 NM

Time the trip between cold fronts.

[Cheechako]

I have not been through the inside to the Keys, but looked at the charts a few times and decided you need a 4 ft draft or less boat to do so without hassle.
True?

[Wolfe10]

Originally Posted by chubby

a Catalina 36 mkII should be less than 6ft

6' is too deep for the ICW in upper Keys.


Depth alarm set for 5.5' goes off quite frequently.


That's why I asked.

[sailorbobdeb]

Originally Posted by jkishel

The ICW south of Palm Beach to Miami has many, many drawbridges, so the outside route is much faster and easier. Stay within a mile or two of shore and you will stay out of the Gulf Stream for the most part (the west edge of the stream can get close to shore near Palm Beach where you may experience a knot or so of current on the nose until you get further south).

South of Miami there are two options; Hawk Channel between the reef and the Keys, and east of the reef between the reef and the Gulf Stream. Take Hawk Channel if you want to stop along the way, take the eastern route if you want to sail through the night and the sea state is favorable. The ICW itself gets too shallow for a C36 west of Blackwater Sound.

Potential stops from Palm Beach to NAS Key West include:

Hillsboro Inlet - anchor east of the bridge
Ft. Lauderdale
Miami - several options including Fisher Island, Marine Stadium, No Name, etc.
Caesar Creek
Angelfish Creek
Rodriguez Key
Indian Key - in settled weather
Long Key
Marathon
Newfound Harbor

A common itinerary is:

Palm Beach to Miami about 60 NM
Miami to Rodriguez Key about 50 NM
Rodriguez Key to Marathon about 50 NM
Marathon to Key West about 50 NM

Time the trip between cold fronts.

I'd add Old Rhodes Key just N of Angelfish to the list of potential stops. This year we anchored in 12' of water where chart shows 5.9' and 6.8' very near the 3.9' area on the N end. We draw 6'. Had great holding.

[Exctyengr]

Thanks for all the great tips and suggestions. Outside hugging the shore seems to me to make the best sense. I like Sailor Bob's suggested itinerary. Four legs seems about right.
We will watch the weather.
Great help ladies and gentlemen!

[Montanan]

Originally Posted by Wolfe10

What is draft? That will determine if the ICW is a viable option in the northern keys.

Originally Posted by chubby

a Catalina 36 mkII should be less than 6ft

Draft (max):
5.83 ft / 1.78 m

Edit of the above post information.

Catalina 36 Mark II
This model was designed by Frank Butler and Gerry Douglas, introduced in 1994 and was produced until 2005. The Mark II uses the same hull design and rig, but has a larger cockpit, different cabin ports, a walk-through transom and a new deck and interior design. The boat has a draft of 5.83 ft (1.78 m) with the standard fin keel and 4.52 ft (1.38 m) with the optional shoal draft wing keel.

[Shanachie]

If you have the shoal version of the 36 at 4 feet and change, you can take the Gulf side of the Keys all of the way to Key West. If you have the 5.8-foot keel, Hawk Channel or outside are your only options.


The difference is that the Gulf side is for those who want a leisurely pace.



There are a ton of anchorages, plenty of good tiki bars and protected water no matter where the wind is blowing.



The down side is that much of it is in limited channels. A few if them shoal to a little less than five feet at low tide. A TowboatUS card is a good idea, just in case.


In particular, Spanish Channel just west and south of Marathon has a spot where I've seen under five feet at low tide. The stretch doesn't last long, but it gets the pulse racing a bit.


There's also a stretch off Islamorada where I've seen five feet a number of times over the years.



Good advice on sailing outside from Palm Beach south. The many, many bridges are only tolerable if it's blowing like hell on the outside.


At a depth of 30 to 40 feet, there sometimes is a countercurrent flowing south along the coast.



I sailed Hillsboro Inlet for many years. Avoid it if you have a strong easterly wind and outgoing tide. Otherwise, it's not a bad place to anchor. Get behind the beach in the cove to avoid the strong tide.


Also, there is a coral reef south of the channel. Follow the markers out.



If you go Hawk Channel or outside, be very aware of the reefs. If you fail to pay attention, they will catch you just the way they have been catching sailing ships for hundreds of years.


The downside of Hawk Channel is that there aren't many places to anchor. Some people grab mooring balls near the reefs (before dark ...), but it can get bumpy if the wind is up.


Also, make sure you have enough fuel if you're in Hawk Channel. You have too much draft to get into many marinas.



All that said, it's a great trip. Have fun.

[Captain Bill]

If outside between Palm beach and Miami staying inside of the 30ft line almost always keeps you out of Gulf Stream effects. I usually run the 20ft line and sometimes even get a counter current. With your draft I would go down Hawk Channel in the keys. I was I the northern Keys last spring and I saw 5ft several times south of Angelfish creek on the inside. Hawk Channel can get a bit rough on a strong east to South wind (above 20). The relatively shallow water makes for short steep wave on the beam. Once south of Marathon you can go down the backside to key West if there are strong southerly winds. Enjoy your trip.

[Rocinante33]

Happy sails!

No matter how you go, it is a nice trip

Between PALM Beach and Prt Everglades there are a ton of bridges and they are all pretty much on opening schedules that will be hard for you to consistently make at what I imagine to be your cruising speed of just over 5 knots. Usually on the hour and half, and without the consistent ability to exceed 6 knots, you’ll just miss several of them. Also, currents run strong enough as the tides breathe in and out to slow you down again. No big deal if you are not in a hurry.

I find it way too trafficky, miles of it are facing sheer walls that echo waves forever and the steady view of apartment buildings and massive houses is no joy to me. Positions on this vary.

It is faster outside. the Gulf Stream runs almost to the beach in that stretch. Not at full strength, but still it’s there and adverse. If you hug that 1/2 to 1 mile line offshore it’s not bad and will occasionally throw you a friendly ‘eddy.’

Same from port Everglades to government cut Miami. If you get the prevailing east wind, you can sail or motor sail much of this.

My draft is 6’ and I have been between Miami and the keys numerous times. If it’s blowy, the inside route is calmer and has multiple anchorages. As you approach the bottom of biscayne bay you have to pay attention but you’ll make it even at low tide. You can go in and out at Angelfish Creek but at low tide you will brush the bottom on the seaside at the outer markers. The 3’ marker on the charts on the bayside is just wrong. Follow the channel markers and you will see 6’ from time to time but you will clear.

You will not be able to navigate Caesar Creek.

You can enter or exit at Snake Creek but at the ocean side (marker 1 & 2) for about 100 yards to the seaside there is a bar that you will not get over at low tide. The tide runs about 2 ft max to min and I have always made it beyond mid tide. I do this only on a rising tide.

Below Snake Creek on the bayside there is in theory a channel but I don’t think it has had maintenance for a long long time. I just don’t bother because it’s too tricky and the outside from islamorada to key west is very easy to navigate.

You have a great gig if you can use the NAS docks.

I didn’t see anybody else mention Boca Chica, but there is a nice sheltered anchorage there and a state park dinghy dock

In the lower Hawk Channel there are a lot of great reefs to swim on and most have big, white anchor balls. You’ll often be alone on the smaller ones and the big white balls give you a visual on the reefs that you need to be concerned about as you navigate southwest.

It’s a great trip. Have fun!

[MJH]

Originally Posted by Exctyengr

OK, so my adult son just bought a Catalina 36 mkII in West Palm Beach, FL and wants me to help him move it to Key West Naval Air Station Marina. Plan is to move it the first week in Jan 23.
I am a West Coast Sailor (SoCal and PNW) but reasonably experienced. So need some local knowledge here: ICW or outside? ICW looks like a lot of bridges and some perhaps confusing navigation; Outside looks like challenges with the Gulf Stream and an opposing wind?
Thoughts on which route and perhaps stops would be appreciated.

I moved my new-to-me boat from St. Augustine to Key West before sailing solo to Galveston, TX and then trucking it to Tacoma, WA...the ICW is a ditch.

A lot depends on the boat's keel. I understand the Catalina 36 mkII had an option of 5.8' fin or 4.4' wing. My boat had 6.0' and touched bottom almost every day of the journey, got stuck twice and pulled out once.

Bridges were a nuisance...got halted at one bridge in a torrential downpour trying to hold position while the bridge was closed; declared an emergency but they would not open it.

I recall motoring passed a guy fishing in waders and he was about 10-15' starboard of the channel.

Good Luck.

[smacksman]

I found under 6 feet on the tricky entrance to Angelfish Creek from the Hawk Channel. I wouldn't risk it in a swell with a 5 ft. draught vessel.