Cuba - Warning non-American Boats

[Mark1977]

Originally Posted by Mambo

Those $$ would be USD?

Nope, Canadian....it's worth more most of the time these days

[avb3]

I guess as Canadians we do get "special treatment" as outlined in this brief from Homeland Security. Seems that it is a cruising permit good for a year.

[Boatguy30]

We went to cuba in 2009 3 americans in family on a british flagged vessel (SSR) we owned. Was one other US vessel in Marina Hemingway, guy was a bit off and kept asking us how we were planning to get back into the US. I think he ended up writing some type of informal guide to Cuba after that.

At the time we were thinking of sailing south to Panama, but ended up returning to the US after 2 weeks in Grand Cayman. We had no issues as there were no stamps in our passports from Cuba.

One of the most memorable things was going to the small bank in Cayo Largo on the south coast that had maybe $10,000 in US cash being counted on a desk behind the counter.

There were of course tons of Canadian vessel there and never heard of them having problems getting back to the US. I did hear some Key West customs guys had there own understandings of the laws and sometimes caused trouble. Personally it always irked me the Canadians would cruise 1500 mile of US coast and then thumb there noses at all US cruisers by cruising Cuba for a few months then returning back thru US waters.

Perhaps there is some "Hope" of the embargo ending in the next 4 years as if would not be re-election issue for a second term Obama.

Another note is the cruising waters in Cuba are not really that great. Read the Calder book carefully, he describes and are about 100 miles east of Havana as quite good and a small area on the mid-south coast that was nice. We found the waters quite murky at least in windy winter winds and overall not really that exciting.

Cheers,
Jeff

[LeaseOnLife]

Originally Posted by ice

Originally Posted by LeaseOnLife
Well, pointing to a library and say it is in there, thanks, I guess...

There are a lot of regulations. They are complicated. If you want to understand them in detail you will simply have to do some work. Sorry about that, but that's just the way it is. Not all of life is delivered to you on a plate already sliced into bite size pieces!

Does this include the Canadian, coming from Cuba, wanting to sail home? ?

If you even read the very first paragraph of the first summary document I linked to above you would find:

"The Cuban Assets Control Regulations, 31 CFR Part 515 (the "Regulations"), were issued by the U.S. Government on July 8, 1963, under the Trading With the Enemy Act in response to certain hostile actions by the Cuban Government. They apply to all persons (individuals and entities) subject to U.S. jurisdiction – including all U.S. citizens and permanent residents wherever located, all persons in the United States, and all branches and subsidiaries of U.S. organizations throughout the world – as well as all persons engaging in transactions that involve property in or otherwise subject to the jurisdiction of the United States. "

And so yes, that does happen to apply to Canadians in US waters after visiting Cuba.

And if you read even a little further down you would see:

"
The Regulations prohibit any person subject to U.S. jurisdiction from dealing in any property in which Cuba or a Cuban national has or has had any interest. Under the Regulations, "property" is very broadly defined and includes such things as contracts and services.
For example, unless authorized, persons subject to U.S. jurisdiction (including U.S. overseas subsidiaries) may not purchase Cuban cigars in third countries; may not sign a contract with a foreign firm if the contract terms include Cuba-related provisions, even if those provisions are contingent upon the lifting of the embargo; and may not provide accounting, marketing, sales, or insurance services . . . .
"

Which forbids essentially any commerical transaction in any currency, not just in US $.

Hi Ice
I guess it was worth the exercise,

• you started out with mentioning a 1996 Helm Burton Act,
  
• then I mentioned a 1992 Cuban Democracy Act,
  
• and now you are pointing us to a 1963 Trading With the Enemy Act.
  

Thanks for helping a foreigner dig thru all this.

[Hillbillylad]

Perhaps they tread gentle with Canadians because someone might point out the Jay treaty and start demanding it's full implementation.

Jay Treaty

[ice]

Originally Posted by LeaseOnLife

Hi Ice
I guess it was worth the exercise,

• you started out with mentioning a 1996 Helm Burton Act,
  
• then I mentioned a 1992 Cuban Democracy Act,
  
• and now you are pointing us to a 1963 Trading With the Enemy Act.
  

Thanks for helping a foreigner dig thru all this.

The USA has a half century of laws piled up on this topic, so as I said its complex. Even worse, the laws are not really what's important to understand. What's important is to understand which ones and how they are being enforced and interpreted down in Florida. That unfortunately seems to change year to year based on administrative decisions (with the same laws in place). That's why I pointed out the 180 day interpretation. It seems to be a recent favorite when the Florida Homeland security guys want to specify something a vessel is in violation of.

[ice]

Originally Posted by Hillbillylad

Perhaps they tread gentle with Canadians because someone might point out the Jay treaty and start demanding it's full implementation.

Jay Treaty

You do know that US vessels entering Canadian waters have to check in and get a cruising permit number (max of 90 days I believe) and if we stay more than 45 days must get a Pleasure Craft Operator Card (or similar) - which I might note the US does not require of Canadians in its waters. This is in no way an 'open border' going either way.

[avb3]

Originally Posted by Mambo

Those $$ would be USD?

Sure, if you still take a lower denominated currency

[Khagan1227]

I think the whole Cuba issue is silly. The Nukes left almost 60 years ago and Cuba is bankrupt. I doubt they are much of a security threat to the U.S.

One would think that by opening relations with Cuba, the U.S. would be able to better monitor the Castro Government better, and as such be far safer.

In any case, the stance of the U.S. Government is in direct conflict with the mission of one of the United States military branches, i.e. the Navy:

The mission of the Navy is to maintain, train and equip combat-ready Naval forces capable of winning wars, deterring aggression and maintaining freedom of the seas.

If our government doesn't want to allow it's people to visit and trade with Cuba, that is fine. But there should be no reason for stopping people from other countires from the fredom of the seas.

Need I point to Vietnam and remind folks that we fought a war against their government and now freely trade with them?

[Khagan1227]

Originally Posted by avb3

Sure, if you still take a lower denominated currency

Currently, the Canadian Dollar and U.S. Dollar are trading less than a penny difference.

[avb3]

Ah, don't you just pine for the days when a U.S. citizen or a Canadian citizen would just show up at the border, flash ones drivers license, and be on their way.

That is just so 1990's isn't it? Homeland Security, Patriot Act, North American Perimeter Security Zone etc. changed all that.

[Khagan1227]

Originally Posted by avb3

Ah, don't you just pine for the days when a U.S. citizen or a Canadian citizen would just show up at the border, flash ones drivers license, and be on their way.

That is just so 1990's isn't it? Homeland Security, Patriot Act, North American Perimeter Security Zone etc. changed all that.

Better words could not be spoken!

[avb3]

Originally Posted by Khagan1227

....
Need I point to Vietnam and remind folks that we fought a war against their government and now freely trade with them?

Not to many Americans who had assets seized in Vietnam I guess, especially ex- Mafia types.

Originally Posted by Khagan1227

Currently, the Canadian Dollar and U.S. Dollar are trading less than a penny difference.

I know, but let us gloat while our is higher - that could change next week and be the other way around.

[savoir]

Well gosh you know what I love ? The opening bit of the Helms-Burton Act

" The purposes of this Act are--
(1) To assist the Cuban people in regaining their freedom and prosperity . . . . "

Now THATS cute !

[Khagan1227]

Originally Posted by avb3

Not to many Americans who had assets seized in Vietnam I guess, especially ex- Mafia types.

Maybe not, but about 50,000 U.S. families would say the price we paid in Vietnam far exceeded the assests lost in Cuba.

I'll admit, my resistance to U.S. embargo is personal. I have visited Cuba many times in the past and I'd love to spend a bit down there and enjoy the country.