Buying a boat in Panama. Could use some advice, please.

[roland stockham]

I will suggest a couple of things having done buisness in panama. One is that if possible make the sale elseware. What is the boats country of registry? Can you make the sale there or where you live? That way you will be under regulatons you know and can understand. Unless you know the place and speak spanish making a large purchase could go bad with all sorts of fees and taxes due.
Second storing the boat there for a year will be a nightmare, getting to a good marina is essential but unless it is in dry storage under cover you will get singnificant damage from the damp, especially over the summer. If possible sail her north to texas.
Final piont is that if the Pacific is calling it is going to cost $3-4k to get through the canal, have you considered this in the price?

[Paul L]

Originally Posted by roland stockham

I will suggest a couple of things having done buisness in panama. One is that if possible make the sale elseware. What is the boats country of registry? Can you make the sale there or where you live? That way you will be under regulatons you know and can understand. Unless you know the place and speak spanish making a large purchase could go bad with all sorts of fees and taxes due.
Second storing the boat there for a year will be a nightmare, getting to a good marina is essential but unless it is in dry storage under cover you will get singnificant damage from the damp, especially over the summer. If possible sail her north to texas.
Final piont is that if the Pacific is calling it is going to cost $3-4k to get through the canal, have you considered this in the price?

Divide your number by 3 or 2, depending on when you make your transit. 3 for the current rates and 2 if the proposed rate comes in.

[philaw]

Originally Posted by belizesailor

Why the beat?

The boat can be stowed in Panama ,you just have to make sure it is properly cared for. From the San Blas, Panamarina is a very good option. Many San Blas cruisers stow their boats there.

I'm a novice, so need to buy a boat in the kind of place where I can settle down for a while to get the hang of things, buy what I need, and build up from day sailing to coastal and island hopping. San Blas could be good beginner sailing, but I'll need supplies at the beginning, and the journey away from there in any direction is intimidating. The kind of storage I'm looking for, where someone will take the boat without me present and carefully store it, is a big ask. I'm hearing about yards I can use in the future, but I'm not hearing anyone say that what I would need to do is a good idea with what is available.

Originally Posted by saillr

Philaw, you asked for advice. Most are giving you excellent advice but I don't think you are listening. Be careful when buying - no matter how good a deal it seems. Get the boat hauled, surveyed and be sure things are working.

I'm not sure why you say I'm not listening. I said a lot of issues had been highlighted and I was feeling less optimistic as a result. The boat I was looking at was Tarka from the Youtube channel, so I feel that I know enough about the owner and boat to buy it unseen. It's not a typical scenario.

A lot is lost in linear discussions on forums. For example, I chartered a Hitia 26 from Siam Sailing based on recommendations here and will be flying out there next weekend. I've bought fins and a snorkel and have practiced with them in the pool.

Originally Posted by Tillsbury

If it is Tarka you're looking at at least you can watch fairly recent video and details of the boat on youtube...

Yup! It's not gonna work, though. If it was a year later I could maybe pull it off, but there are too many obstacles now.

Originally Posted by SV Sailfish

I'll bet this is the boat the OP is all lathered up about. It is on a separate thread as of today...

http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...um+-+Emails%29

Tarka. An Albin Vega 27 in very good condition. Tarka's owner has a YouTube channel and is selling for family reasons. This little boat is a gem for the price. But she needs an experienced captain and not a dreamer.

So... OP, Please DO NOT buy her and just let her sit. If you do, she will be just another graveyard boat a year from now. If you have not stored a boat in the tropics, you have no clue as to how fast boats and their equipment will deteriorate.

Save that dream of yours. Buy local or buy when you can actually go sailing.

Just an FYI from someone that actually knows and has returned to an "oh crap have I got a lot of repairs to do" tropic stored vessel. Take off the rose colored glasses and please do not kid yourself. One good deck leak and your 10k steal will quickly turn into a big headache.

That's the one. It doesn't really feel like I'm wearing rose tinted specs, though. The perfect boat became available at the perfect price, at the wrong time. I told Bryan I was interested in the boat, and would get back to him if I could find a satisfactory way of storing it until next summer, which hasn't happened. I mentioned earlier in this same post that stuff gets lost in these linear threads. For example, I live in Guangzhou, which has similar weather. I asked about places to store the boat because I know that it could be ruined if I just have it left outside in a commercial boat yard.

One of the qualities that defines great sailors for me is determination. I'm reading South Sea Vagabonds right now, and if John Wray can build a boat and sail the South Pacific through force of will alone, it would be a bit pathetic of me to let that boat go without at least asking around for storage solutions.

[Q Xopa]

Originally Posted by roland stockham

I will suggest a couple of things having done buisness in panama. One is that if possible make the sale elseware. What is the boats country of registry? Can you make the sale there or where you live? That way you will be under regulatons you know and can understand. Unless you know the place and speak spanish making a large purchase could go bad with all sorts of fees and taxes due.
Second storing the boat there for a year will be a nightmare, getting to a good marina is essential but unless it is in dry storage under cover you will get singnificant damage from the damp, especially over the summer. If possible sail her north to texas.
Final piont is that if the Pacific is calling it is going to cost $3-4k to get through the canal, have you considered this in the price?

Yes buying in Panama especially not being a Spanish speaker wont be easy.

Dry storage for sailboats in Panama doesnt exist.

Canal transit, probably not $3-4k, but at least $1k.

If it the one adertised on this forum in the last day or so, it's at Vista Mar, which is the Pacific.

[philaw]

Originally Posted by roland stockham

I will suggest a couple of things having done buisness in panama. One is that if possible make the sale elseware. What is the boats country of registry? Can you make the sale there or where you live? That way you will be under regulatons you know and can understand. Unless you know the place and speak spanish making a large purchase could go bad with all sorts of fees and taxes due.
Second storing the boat there for a year will be a nightmare, getting to a good marina is essential but unless it is in dry storage under cover you will get singnificant damage from the damp, especially over the summer. If possible sail her north to texas.
Final piont is that if the Pacific is calling it is going to cost $3-4k to get through the canal, have you considered this in the price?

Thanks for the advice. I'm gonna let this one go. Summer 2020 I'll have enough money to quit my job, do a Day Skipper, and then buy a boat or crew. This route has too many potholes.

Originally Posted by Paul L

Divide your number by 3 or 2, depending on when you make your transit. 3 for the current rates and 2 if the proposed rate comes in.

Google said it's $800, but transiting the canal and finding myself faced with the pacific at the beginning of my trip is another reason to back out.

[belizesailor]

There are plenty of boats out there, so if it doesnt feel right then no harm in letting it slide...there will be another one.

While the San Blas has excellent sailing conditions in dry season, it is not an entirely benign learning environment...the reefs there are complex, electronic charts are inaccurate, and many boats are lost every year.

My suggestion is build as much experience as you can between now and your jump off date. If you have some experience by your jump off date then you could continue to build experience w/out ownership...there are loads of opportunities to crew esp if you have a little experience. This also allows you to form a better opinion of what you want in a boat...sailing on lots of different boats is good for this.

ASA even has several schools in China now:

https://asa.com/schools/china/

[philaw]

Originally Posted by belizesailor

There are plenty of boats out there, so if it doesnt feel right then no harm in letting it slide...there will be another one.

While the San Blas has excellent sailing conditions in dry season, it is not an entirely benign learning environment...the reefs there are complex, electronic charts are inaccurate, and many boats are lost every year.

My suggestion is build as much experience as you can between now and your jump off date. If you have some experience by your jump off date then you could continue to build experience w/out ownership...there are loads of opportunities to crew esp if you have a little experience. This also allows you to form a better opinion of what you want in a boat...sailing on lots of different boats is good for this.

ASA even has several schools in China now:

https://asa.com/schools/china/

Thanks for the advice. I intend to fit in ASA or RYA courses, but the rest of the plan is fluid. Crewing could be a good education, but I also like the idea of getting a boat and starting out slowly, anchoring out and day sailing to get used to it. There's no point pretending plans are fixed. If there were a lot of local crewing opportunities I'd do that and if I could crew across the Atlantic I'd probably jump at it. If there were few good crewing opportunities I'd likely buy a boat and do my own thing.

[belizesailor]

If I were single, as Im inferring you are, I would do a lot more crewing/paid gigs. One reason I still own a cruising boat is that Im married. Once you build some solid experience and contacts crewing opportunities will come your way. I have to turn down lots of them these days. I just spent a month crewing for a friend (NYC-Bermuda-Azores) and have a paid gig booked in Belize for November. Have other requests in between (like Bermuda-Carib-Guatemala)...Im mulling that one over vs marital bliss. [emoji6] Then my wife and I will likely head back to the San Blas for several months in the spring.

Many come here in a rush to buy a boat...my perspective is different...I was already a charter captain/instructor before I bought my first boat over 16'. I built a ton of exprience crewing, racing, chartering across a wide variety of boats first...which has served me well. This may or may not be the path for you, but I like to point out to people that you dont need to own a boat to learn to sail or build experience.

[belizesailor]

Originally Posted by Q Xopa

Yes buying in Panama especially not being a Spanish speaker wont be easy.

Dry storage for sailboats in Panama doesnt exist.

Canal transit, probably not $3-4k, but at least $1k.

If it the one adertised on this forum in the last day or so, it's at Vista Mar, which is the Pacific.

No covered storage of course (nor anywhere else Ive been for sailboats w the stick up), but there is company in Panama who does shrink wrapping of boats. Ive seen quite a few shrink wrapped here over the past 2 years.

[philaw]

Originally Posted by belizesailor

No covered storage of course (nor anywhere else Ive been for sailboats w the stick up), but there is company in Panama who does shrink wrapping of boats. I've seen quite a few shrink wrapped here over the past 2 years.

I emailed a couple of yards yesterday and got this info. The first one included photos of boats in shrink wrap. For others' reference...

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hello Phillip!

Thanks for your request!! We can cover your boat for the following price:

Shrink-wrap 37 ft Yacht USD 450.00
Materials 350.00
Sub Total 800.00 + 7% = 856.00

It sure goes a long way towards preserving your deck and hull. We look forward to working with you!

Kind regards,

Shelter Bay Marina
Edwin Chavez

Shelter Bay Marina
011 507 6780 9641

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hola Phillip!!

We can definitely, receive, store and take care of the vessel at Shelter Bay Marina!!

Estimated quote as follow, Minimun size is 30 feet.

Water slip, $0.45 per feet per day plus 7% tax.
Haul Out, $14.00 per feet includes pressure wash, if contracted prior to August 31, 2019 we can do 50% on this one.
Secured Dry Storage, $0.35 per feet per day.
Boat care, $90.00 per month includes 2 monthly inspections and one monthly report with pictures.

We can do a Shrinkwrap for the vessel. Copying Mr Edwin Chavez Yard Manager to quote this.

Shall you need additional information please let me know!

Saludos

[Q Xopa]

Originally Posted by philaw

I emailed a couple of yards yesterday and got this info. The first one included photos of boats in shrink wrap. For others' reference...

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hello Phillip!

Thanks for your request!! We can cover your boat for the following price:

Shrink-wrap 37 ft Yacht USD 450.00
Materials 350.00
Sub Total 800.00 + 7% = 856.00

It sure goes a long way towards preserving your deck and hull. We look forward to working with you!

Kind regards,

Shelter Bay Marina
Edwin Chavez

Shelter Bay Marina
011 507 6780 9641

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hola Phillip!!

We can definitely, receive, store and take care of the vessel at Shelter Bay Marina!!

Estimated quote as follow, Minimun size is 30 feet.

Water slip, $0.45 per feet per day plus 7% tax.
Haul Out, $14.00 per feet includes pressure wash, if contracted prior to August 31, 2019 we can do 50% on this one.
Secured Dry Storage, $0.35 per feet per day.
Boat care, $90.00 per month includes 2 monthly inspections and one monthly report with pictures.

We can do a Shrinkwrap for the vessel. Copying Mr Edwin Chavez Yard Manager to quote this.

Shall you need additional information please let me know!

Saludos

Yes, Ok I stand corrected.

I was thinking more of Pacific/ South coast which is where Vista Mar is. I'm sure you could get it done there too with a bit of messing around. They are new and still working out how and what services they can provide. But they seem open and helpful. Personally its good to see some competition. Its a bit of a drive from Shelter Bay, couple of hours ish.

Having bought a boat in Panama I can recommend it. However it of course has some hurdles to leap, as does anywhere.

Panama is in many ways limited with boat resources but there are also many ways to overcome them with a bit of lateral thinking.

That particular boat, just going off his videos, does look pretty nicely done.
I have enjoyed his videos and his style he presented. The boat looks capable and adequate yet not too ambitious.

[belizesailor]

Originally Posted by philaw

I emailed a couple of yards yesterday and got this info. The first one included photos of boats in shrink wrap. For others' reference...



---------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Hello Phillip!



Thanks for your request!! We can cover your boat for the following price:



Shrink-wrap 37 ft Yacht USD 450.00

Materials 350.00

Sub Total 800.00 + 7% = 856.00



It sure goes a long way towards preserving your deck and hull. We look forward to working with you!



Kind regards,



Shelter Bay Marina

Edwin Chavez



Shelter Bay Marina

011 507 6780 9641



---------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Hola Phillip!!



We can definitely, receive, store and take care of the vessel at Shelter Bay Marina!!



Estimated quote as follow, Minimun size is 30 feet.



Water slip, $0.45 per feet per day plus 7% tax.

Haul Out, $14.00 per feet includes pressure wash, if contracted prior to August 31, 2019 we can do 50% on this one.

Secured Dry Storage, $0.35 per feet per day.

Boat care, $90.00 per month includes 2 monthly inspections and one monthly report with pictures.



We can do a Shrinkwrap for the vessel. Copying Mr Edwin Chavez Yard Manager to quote this.



Shall you need additional information please let me know!



Saludos

Edwin, the yard manager at SB, is a great guy, but note that SB marks up contractor prices by quite a lot. I have been successful at negotiating them way down because I knew what the contractor normally charged. The upside to going thru the marina is that they will then warranty the job and deal w any disputes (still get that in writting of course). And they of course will translate if thats an issue. You can contract directly, but are on your own then.

[philaw]

Originally Posted by belizesailor

If I were single, as Im inferring you are, I would do a lot more crewing/paid gigs. One reason I still own a cruising boat is that Im married. Once you build some solid experience and contacts crewing opportunities will come your way. I have to turn down lots of them these days. I just spent a month crewing for a friend (NYC-Bermuda-Azores) and have a paid gig booked in Belize for November. Have other requests in between (like Bermuda-Carib-Guatemala)...Im mulling that one over vs marital bliss. [emoji6] Then my wife and I will likely head back to the San Blas for several months in the spring.

,mkjuhyhjk,.lkjhnjm/';ljyhklp'];pytu7p[]-iy67u-=8Many come here in a rush to buy a boat...my perspective is different...I was already a charter captain/instructor before I bought my first boat over 16'. I built a ton of exprience crewing, racing, chartering across a wide variety of boats first...which has served me well. This may or may not be the path for you, but I like to point out to people that you don't need to own a boat to learn to sail or build experience.

Crewing has to be a better education at the beginning that trial and error. Doing things wrong indefinitely or sinking your boat is the possible cost of going solo too soon.

My intent going into this is to test out the sea gypsy lifestyle and see if it suits me. At the extreme, owning a boat is a much more expensive way of doing that than even the lowest paid crewing work, assuming it's available.

[belizesailor]

Originally Posted by philaw

Crewing has to be a better education at the beginning that trial and error. Doing things wrong indefinitely or sinking your boat is the possible cost of going solo too soon.



My intent going into this is to test out the sea gypsy lifestyle and see if it suits me. At the extreme, owning a boat is a much more expensive way of doing that than even the lowest paid crewing work, assuming it's available.

With a little experience, sea gypsy opportunities abound. I hopped aboard a boat back in early May in NYC, got delayed by more prep work than expected, then another week delay in Bermuda for repairs (and waiting on parts), then on to the Azores...the boat is now on the way to the Med and I could still be aboard, but my wife met me in the Azores (we are now travelling in Portugal). With some good experience you could do this sort or thing almost all year long (shifting routes the season) and really live like a sea gypsy...w no boat and no home.

[philaw]

Originally Posted by belizesailor

With a little experience, sea gypsy opportunities abound. I hopped aboard a boat back in early May in NYC, got delayed by more prep work than expected, then another week delay in Bermuda for repairs (and waiting on parts), then on to the Azores...the boat is now on the way to the Med and I could still be aboard, but my wife met me in the Azores (we are now travelling in Portugal). With some good experience you could do this sort or thing almost all year long (shifting routes the season) and really live like a sea gypsy...w no boat and no home.

So why do I get up at 6:20am every morning and go to work? Ha ha ha

Part of the plan is to buy a house and rent it out so I have something to come back to. Having your mortgage paid while you do that would feel like having your cake and eating it. The Azores are most definitely on my list.