Belize Cruising

[belizesailor]

Originally Posted by belizesailor

Re sattelite imagery. Other than for comfirming precise location of land masses, I havent found it that useful in Belize. Again, commercial/miltiary interest drive many things, including satellites. Much of the imagery on Google Earth for example isnt that clear/detailed. It appears they use some sort of fill algorythm for large areas of water and that obliterates some of the detail in Belize. Also lots of images with extensive cloud cover. There may be better imagery from other sources, but I havent researched it.

By contrast, there is excellent satellite imagery of Cuba. [emoji41]

Just looked at Bing sattelite imagery...way better than standard Google sattelite (I think there is also a pro version of Google which may be better). Zoom level of detail is much better on Bing and more up to date on areas I checked.

Image of one of my favorite anchorages attached...which is not on any charts, or in Freya's guide. Well protected and great snorkeling nearby. [emoji41]

[roberto11]

Hi
Is it possible and enjoyable to sail in Belize with a large sail yacht with a big draft ?
I just started collecting information for a possible cruise in Central American Atlantic side and I will be happy to have your opinions.
Thanks

[belizesailor]

Originally Posted by roberto11

Hi
Is it possible and enjoyable to sail in Belize with a large sail yacht with a big draft ?
I just started collecting information for a possible cruise in Central American Atlantic side and I will be happy to have your opinions.
Thanks

Sure, cruise ships run inside the reef...how big a draft u got? 😆

[roberto11]

Thank you Belizesailor,
15' normally and 31' with the centerboard down.

I read couple of articles and I had the impression Belize is quite shallow and even boat with 8' or 9' draft were able to visit limited anchorages...

[belizesailor]

Originally Posted by roberto11

Thank you Belizesailor,
15' normally and 31' with the centerboard down.

I read couple of articles and I had the impression Belize is quite shallow and even boat with 8' or 9' draft were able to visit limited anchorages...

31 feet (not inches...double quotes " ) board down...is that correct!?

Belizean waters are quite shallow, they are also quite deep, often both in very close proximity. Draft will limit where you can go, but there are options for deeper draft vessels.

[Usual Suspects]

Just returned from my first trip to Belize, sailing out of Placencia lagoon via Sunsail which was great.

We normally go to BVI's, or the Grenadines or St Martin/St Barths etc., but due to the storms thought we'd go try a new venue while the other areas heal.

Here's what I wish I knew before I went:

- the anchorages are empty. great ! I saw only a few other charter boats during the entire spring break week. Like maybe 10. We were frequently the only boat at any of the anchorages.

- the cruising guide recommends several different areas to grab a mooring. I dont rely on those, but for the record I saw a total of two places that had any, and in all cases were far fewer than advertised in the cruising guide

- I dug around for charts online, didn't find any before I left, didn't worry about it. the "charts" that come with the boat really should be thought of as a placemat from a low-end seafood restaraunt. There's not even enough detail to accurately get a GPS coordinate from. The only NOAA style charts available were huge in scale. The "local chart" as described above was hand-drawn and was missing entire islands (big enough for houses and such).

- When I hear "line of sight" navigation, I think in terms of "you can see the island that you're sailing to." Down here, what they mean is "you may be sailing in 70' of water but keep looking forward cuz there are breaking waves on a reef 200' in front of you that must be avoided."

- the cruising guide is nice and all, but the details were frequently inaccurate ("that bar closed years ago")

What would I do different ?

- Download any digital charts or even pics from google earth and make some o your own charts. using google earth you could easily create and plug in your own waypoints before you leave town. create routes with a series of waypoints so you're not screwing around with it each morning before you leave.

- FOR SURE: spend the $20 bucks and download the Navionics carib / S. american app. on your iPhone. This was massively helpful, as even tho you're out of cell range your iPhone becomes a GPS and the app has stored all the names of the islands / places you're going to visit. The app. will route you between reefs and islands, simplifies things a lot.

While I'm making myself sound like a beginner here, navigating around these islands off Belize is no joke and you'd better be paying attention. with more than 20,000 miles under my keel and over a dozen carribbean trips behind me I found this one to be truly challenging.

Almost forgot: never saw a single red or green nav. aid the entire week.

If ya go, it's great but it's really up to you to use your eyes. The charts sucked, just go prepared is all I'm sayin'

[Sailmonkey]

Originally Posted by Usual Suspects

- the cruising guide recommends several different areas to grab a mooring. I dont rely on those, but for the record I saw a total of two places that had any, and in all cases were far fewer than advertised in the cruising guide

What cruising guide were you using?

- I dug around for charts online, didn't find any before I left, didn't worry about it. the "charts" that come with the boat really should be thought of as a placemat from a low-end seafood restaraunt. There's not even enough detail to accurately get a GPS coordinate from. The only NOAA style charts available were huge in scale. The "local chart" as described above was hand-drawn and was missing entire islands (big enough for houses and such).

Were the "local" charts from a guidebook, or something else?

- When I hear "line of sight" navigation, I think in terms of "you can see the island that you're sailing to." Down here, what they mean is "you may be sailing in 70' of water but keep looking forward cuz there are breaking waves on a reef 200' in front of you that must be avoided."

- the cruising guide is nice and all, but the details were frequently inaccurate ("that bar closed years ago")

What would I do different ?

- Download any digital charts or even pics from google earth and make some o your own charts. using google earth you could easily create and plug in your own waypoints before you leave town. create routes with a series of waypoints so you're not screwing around with it each morning before you leave.

Be careful with electronic charts in places like this.
the charts are only as good as the data behind them. The only area of Belize, to my knowledge, with recent survey data are the approached to belize city and big creek. The rest is of no commercial interest, so there are no recent surveys.

- FOR SURE: spend the $20 bucks and download the Navionics carib / S. american app. on your iPhone. This was massively helpful, as even tho you're out of cell range your iPhone becomes a GPS and the app has stored all the names of the islands / places you're going to visit. The app. will route you between reefs and islands, simplifies things a lot.

While I'm making myself sound like a beginner here, navigating around these islands off Belize is no joke and you'd better be paying attention. with more than 20,000 miles under my keel and over a dozen carribbean trips behind me I found this one to be truly challenging.

Almost forgot: never saw a single red or green nav. aid the entire week.

If ya go, it's great but it's really up to you to use your eyes. The charts sucked, just go prepared is all I'm sayin'

To me the beauty of Belize is the lack of nav aids, this keeps the area from turning into the BVI's

[Usual Suspects]

not disagreeing with you about keeping it 'natural'--- but its more remote than I expected for sure. I'm a BVI guy, so over the years we get hooked on restaurants and ice and water and stuff

Guide book was Freya Rauscher, charts in it apparently drawn by her as well and titled "cruising guide to belize and mexico's carribbean coast".

Truly, if they're gonna go to the bother of even making a chart errrr.. I mean picture...could they also include a waypoint list in the book for the popular places? Checked the index over and over. Nope. What's a cruising guide with no waypoints ?

There's not lat or long. scale along the edges of the "chart" either. A couple random headings here and there, but nothing you'd trust to navigate with, hence my earlier reference to 'seafood restaraunt placemat'. It's nuts.

[Sailmonkey]

Actually those charts are quite good! They do have lat and long on most of them, as well as point coordinates for places to turn or line up on a range.

I think the reason that there are not a list of “waypoints” is specifically to keep someone from punching in coordinates and going straight to them from one point or another. Belize demands that the navigator is at all times aware of ranges and points to turn as well as compass headings while threading between islands or coral heads.

The lat and long on most of the sketch charts are indicated by a single line of position usually, then You would step off degrees/mins/seconds from those.

[belizesailor]

You will only find nav aides in 2 areas in Belize...the only 2 areas w commercial traffic. One, Belize City area including Eastern Channem. Two, Big Creek (a small commercial port near Placencia).

[belizesailor]

Originally Posted by Usual Suspects

not disagreeing with you about keeping it 'natural'--- but its more remote than I expected for sure. I'm a BVI guy, so over the years we get hooked on restaurants and ice and water and stuff

Guide book was Freya Rauscher, charts in it apparently drawn by her as well and titled "cruising guide to belize and mexico's carribbean coast".

Truly, if they're gonna go to the bother of even making a chart errrr.. I mean picture...could they also include a waypoint list in the book for the popular places? Checked the index over and over. Nope. What's a cruising guide with no waypoints ?

There's not lat or long. scale along the edges of the "chart" either. A couple random headings here and there, but nothing you'd trust to navigate with, hence my earlier reference to 'seafood restaraunt placemat'. It's nuts.

Belize aint the BVI for sure...fortunately. If you are looking for a resturant guide then Freya's guide is not it...try land guides. No great loss in Belize because once you get away from the few develped areas (Ambergris Caye, Caye Cauker, Placencia...) then there are almost none, except at a few resorts out on the cayes.

Her chart formats are not the same as a standard government issue chart, but her charts are in fact quite accurate. Ive used her guide for many years all over Belize and there are only a few inaccuracies.

Re scales. Freya's charts do have a scale on them. Usually given in 1 nautical mile and fractions thereof. 1 nautical mile = 1' of Latitude...same as using a graduated Latitude scale on the edge of a chart. Her charts do not have a graduated longitude scale (other than the major meridians in the grid for the given chart), but thats pretty easy to draw in to a sufficient level of granularity with a pair of dividers.

[belizesailor]

A few more comments:

Waypoints. I dont like to give out waypoints in Belize either...because you really need to do your own nav and pay attention. This aint the BVI, you cant just motor from point A to B and ignore whats in between. However, the more recent version of Freya's guide does have waypoints given on some of the charts.

Moorings. A project was completed years ago to install moorings in popular spots for chartered boats. The moorings were installed, but unfortunately suffered from lack of maintenance, incompetent use, and vandalism. Now they are no more. There are a few privately maintained moorings in Belize. However, no one can legally charge for their use, because under Belizean law a mooring becomes public domain the moment it is installed. The installer gets "priority use" (undefined) and may ask for voluntary donations for maintenance.

[CaptsWife]

And here I thought the Bahamas were bad. Still petrified after our hard grounding at Devil's Cay. Now reading this thread, I don't know how we'll ever make it down to the Rio Dulce.

North coast of Cuba with all their coral heads and shallow areas, then crossing the Yucatan Channel to Isla Mujeres. I may not have it in me.

I just bought your notes from Amazon, BelizeSailor. Thanks. Maybe it will help.

[belizesailor]

A bad grounding can rattle your cage for sure, but always best to conquer a fear...and not the other way round...you will be glad you did. Lesson learned: dont transit where waves are breaking! [emoji1]

If you look at my Western Carib Cruising Notes (also on Amazon), there is a summary of all the cruising guides for the area. Fortunately, there are some excellent ones to guide you along.

Cuba. I dont cover Cuba in my notes, but Nigel Calder's aging guide to Cuba is quite good for navigation at least. Just be aware that the area around Isla Parasio was rearranged by a hurricane...not sure if more current charts have been updated.

Belize. Follow Freya Rauchers guide in Belize and you will be fine. I saw some rubbish posted about it being inaccurate recently -- complete rubbish...ignore the noise. My Notes are supplemental to her guide and hopefully add some worthwhile info.

[belizesailor]

Here is a post on a recent thread that gives my 2c for guides to the region:

http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/....php?p=2611910