Cruisers Forum
 


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 15-05-2022, 05:01   #496
Registered User

Join Date: May 2022
Posts: 1
Re: Replace Diesel with electric engine

Quote:
Originally Posted by stormalong View Post
Ken,

I keep my boat at anchor outside of Langley Marina in the summer when I am not making short trips to BC or AK. The meaning of short is three weeks to two months. In the winter I keep it in a marina, this year in Anacortes.

Your two examples of electric boats define the problem with electrics.

Echo Voyager weighs 50 tons and is limited to 2.5 knots and 150NM range.

Duffy boats largest offering is a 22 foot launch with a top speed of 6 knots, at top speed it can run for 6.5 hours, it weighs 4300 lbs.

It would be interesting to know how much of these weights are for the batteries and the volume of the batteries vs useful payload of the Echo Voyager.

It is also interesting to note that the only electric boats that General Dynamics makes today are nuclear powered and are built with nearly unlimited budgets.

My "truth" is obviously not your truth. I have circumnavigated and have put over 135,000 nm on my Nordic over the last 29 years. On a few occasions I have motored at near idle speed in dead calm for days on end. From Honolulu to Ucuelet, Vancouver Island we motored so long that we burned 80 gallons of diesel (at a quart an hour!). A 21 day voyage - the longest time of any voyage I have ever made. I have sailed longer distances in shorter times and burnt no fuel. My "truth" is that going up the inside passage to AK requires schedules. These schedules are dictated by tidal currents and rapids. Sometimes requiring the passage of multiple rapids on one leg. Miss the schedule and one day's passage turns into two with poor choices for places to anchor in between.

I made the comment that before engines many sailing ships ended up on the rocks. Some commenters disagreed. Whole flotillas of square riggers foundered because they could not point like modern sailboats and were driven onto the rocks. Read your history. Read the opening of the book or watch the movie Longitude.

So, in conclusion I stand by my opinion that the only time a battery electric drive is viable is if you are day sailing near your harbor. And even then the economics don't make sense. Try to sell a battery electric drive sailboat and see what happens. Maybe someday but not now and not in the near future.
Have you seen the silent catamaran yacht series? They are fully electric with kite sails, are rated as transoceanic, and have been tested as such.

The 60 footer is about 29t, cruises at 8kn and maxes around 20, which the sail also hits. Has a 100mn range a day.

It has panels and regen, and tech has come on some way even in the last year or so. Full liveaboard, sadly a touch outside my price range.

They're not the only ones, either - although in this instance it's designed more as a power yacht with sailing addition than the other way around.

But with windturbine, hydroelectric turbine and panel regen I don't see it as totally unfeasible to replace diesel motors - energy density is much better now and iirc much malsmaller lighter electric motors deliver the same as larger heavier diesels.
Chris_bramley is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-05-2022, 06:01   #497
Senior Cruiser
 
GordMay's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Thunder Bay, Ontario - 48-29N x 89-20W
Boat: (Cruiser Living On Dirt)
Posts: 49,721
Images: 241
Re: Replace Diesel with electric engine

Greetings and welcome aboard the CF, altruistica, and Chris.
__________________
Gord May
"If you didn't have the time or money to do it right in the first place, when will you get the time/$ to fix it?"



GordMay is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 15-05-2022, 06:20   #498
Moderator
 
Adelie's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: La Ciudad de la Misión Didacus de Alcalá en Alta California, Virreinato de Nueva España
Boat: Cal 20
Posts: 20,638
Re: Replace Diesel with electric engine

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris_bramley View Post
Have you seen the silent catamaran yacht series? They are fully electric with kite sails, are rated as transoceanic, and have been tested as such.

The 60 footer is about 29t, cruises at 8kn and maxes around 20, which the sail also hits. Has a 100mn range a day.

It has panels and regen, and tech has come on some way even in the last year or so. Full liveaboard, sadly a touch outside my price range.

They're not the only ones, either - although in this instance it's designed more as a power yacht with sailing addition than the other way around.

But with windturbine, hydroelectric turbine and panel regen I don't see it as totally unfeasible to replace diesel motors - energy density is much better now and iirc much malsmaller lighter electric motors deliver the same as larger heavier diesels.
Welcome.

I would suggest updating your profile with your general location and your boat make & model or “Looking” in the "Boat" category. This info shows up under your UserName in every post in the web view. Many questions are boat and/or location dependent and having these tidbits under your UserName saves answering those questions repeatedly. If you need help setting up your profile then click on this link: https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums...ml#post3308797

I would happily help more if the link above is not enough.
__________________
Num Me Vexo?
For all of your celestial navigation questions: https://navlist.net/
A house is but a boat so poorly built and so firmly run aground no one would think to try and refloat it.
Adelie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-05-2022, 08:20   #499
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Beaufort, NC, USA
Boat: Ta Chiao 56
Posts: 753
Re: Replace Diesel with electric engine

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris_bramley View Post
Have you seen the silent catamaran yacht series? They are fully electric with kite sails, are rated as transoceanic, and have been tested as such.

The 60 footer is about 29t, cruises at 8kn and maxes around 20, which the sail also hits. Has a 100mn range a day.

It has panels and regen, and tech has come on some way even in the last year or so. Full liveaboard, sadly a touch outside my price range.

They're not the only ones, either - although in this instance it's designed more as a power yacht with sailing addition than the other way around.

But with windturbine, hydroelectric turbine and panel regen I don't see it as totally unfeasible to replace diesel motors - energy density is much better now and iirc much malsmaller lighter electric motors deliver the same as larger heavier diesels.
You seem to have missed the fact that the Silent 60 comes in three versions, none of which are all electric. The choices are 100 or 145 kw generators, fed by 1,000 to 1,900 liter diesel fuel tanks. When the factory team did their Atlantic crossing, they put something over 200 hours on the generator, burning just about every drop of diesel on board.
Brewgyver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-05-2022, 19:34   #500
Registered User

Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Australia
Boat: 50' aluminium power cat
Posts: 303
Re: Replace Diesel with electric engine

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brewgyver View Post
You seem to have missed the fact that the Silent 60 comes in three versions, none of which are all electric. The choices are 100 or 145 kw generators, fed by 1,000 to 1,900 liter diesel fuel tanks. When the factory team did their Atlantic crossing, they put something over 200 hours on the generator, burning just about every drop of diesel on board.
I think you are right, although I'm sure you could ask Silent to simply not install the gensets !

While the "transoceanic" is true (they crossed the Atlantic), any claim to "transoceanic on electric only" is unproven. However, gravity is not proven either - it's a scientific theory.
Clearly the boat has the capability to cross oceans under electric power alone (as distinct to, say, boats that have no generating capability or batteries ). You may need a combination of conditions: decent sun, no time pressures, slow speed, etc. But that's ok.

Now, could you say Silent 60 is "transoceanic in the polar winter"? How about "transoceanic in the middle of hurricane/cyclone season"? Possibly, but I'd like a leetle more evidence . How about "transoceanic with a family/crew of 6 being comfortable on 80% of the trip, when they can pick their weather window and speed using modern forecasting"? That one I'd support any day ... like gravity
mcarthur is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-05-2022, 21:09   #501
Moderator
 
Adelie's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: La Ciudad de la Misión Didacus de Alcalá en Alta California, Virreinato de Nueva España
Boat: Cal 20
Posts: 20,638
Re: Replace Diesel with electric engine

Azure marine has/had 40’ all electric cats that can maintain 4.5kt indefinitely.

https://plugboats.com/aquanima-solar...24-7-autonomy/
__________________
Num Me Vexo?
For all of your celestial navigation questions: https://navlist.net/
A house is but a boat so poorly built and so firmly run aground no one would think to try and refloat it.
Adelie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-05-2022, 01:50   #502
Senior Cruiser
 
GordMay's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Thunder Bay, Ontario - 48-29N x 89-20W
Boat: (Cruiser Living On Dirt)
Posts: 49,721
Images: 241
Re: Replace Diesel with electric engine

Quote:
Originally Posted by mcarthur View Post
... While the "transoceanic" is true (they crossed the Atlantic), any claim to "transoceanic on electric only" is unproven. However, gravity is not proven either - it's a scientific theory...
... That one I'd support any day ... like gravity
All physics textbook should include this warning label:
“This textbook contains material on Gravity. Universal Gravity is a theory, not a fact, regarding the natural law of attraction. This material should be approached with an open mind, studied carefully, and critically considered.”

There are numerous alternative theories, that should be taught on an equal basis.
For example, the observed behavior of the earth's revolving around the sun can be perfectly explained, if the sun has a net positive charge and the planets have a net negative charge, since opposite charges attract, and the force is an inverse-square law, exactly as proposed by the increasingly discredited Theory of Gravity.
Physics and chemistry texts emphasize that this is the explanation for electrons going around the nucleus, so if it works for atoms, why not for the solar system? The answer is simple: scientific orthodoxy. Anti-gravity papers are routinely rejected from peer reviewed journals, and scientists, who propose anti-gravity, quickly lose their funding. Universal gravity theory is just a way to keep the grant money flowing.

The theory of gravity violates common sense in many ways. Adherents have a hard time explaining, for instance, why airplanes do not fall. Since anti-gravity is rejected by the scientific establishment, they resort to lots of hand-waving. The theory, if taken seriously, implies that the default position, for all airplanes, is on the ground.
While this seems true for Northwest Airlines, it appears that JetBlue and Southwest have a superior theory, that effectively harnesses forces that overcome so-called gravity.

Finally, the mere name‚ "Universal Theory of Gravity", or "Theory of Universal Gravity" (secularists like to use confusing language), has a distinctly socialist ring to it. The core idea of "to each according to his weight, from each according to his mass" is communistic. There is no reason that gravity should apply to the just and the unjust equally, and the saved should have relief from such "universalism." If we have Universal Gravity now, then universal health care will be sure to follow.

It is this kind of universalism that saps a nation's moral fiber. It is not even clear why we need a theory of gravity: there is not a single mention in the Bible, and the patriotic Founding Fathers never referred to it.
__________________
Gord May
"If you didn't have the time or money to do it right in the first place, when will you get the time/$ to fix it?"



GordMay is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 17-05-2022, 02:35   #503
Nearly an old salt
 
goboatingnow's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Lefkas Marina ,Greece
Boat: Bavaria 36
Posts: 22,801
Images: 3
Re: Replace Diesel with electric engine

Quote:
Originally Posted by GordMay View Post
All physics textbook should include this warning label:
“This textbook contains material on Gravity. Universal Gravity is a theory, not a fact, regarding the natural law of attraction. This material should be approached with an open mind, studied carefully, and critically considered.”

There are numerous alternative theories, that should be taught on an equal basis.
For example, the observed behavior of the earth's revolving around the sun can be perfectly explained, if the sun has a net positive charge and the planets have a net negative charge, since opposite charges attract, and the force is an inverse-square law, exactly as proposed by the increasingly discredited Theory of Gravity.
Physics and chemistry texts emphasize that this is the explanation for electrons going around the nucleus, so if it works for atoms, why not for the solar system? The answer is simple: scientific orthodoxy. Anti-gravity papers are routinely rejected from peer reviewed journals, and scientists, who propose anti-gravity, quickly lose their funding. Universal gravity theory is just a way to keep the grant money flowing.

The theory of gravity violates common sense in many ways. Adherents have a hard time explaining, for instance, why airplanes do not fall. Since anti-gravity is rejected by the scientific establishment, they resort to lots of hand-waving. The theory, if taken seriously, implies that the default position, for all airplanes, is on the ground.
While this seems true for Northwest Airlines, it appears that JetBlue and Southwest have a superior theory, that effectively harnesses forces that overcome so-called gravity.

Finally, the mere name‚ "Universal Theory of Gravity", or "Theory of Universal Gravity" (secularists like to use confusing language), has a distinctly socialist ring to it. The core idea of "to each according to his weight, from each according to his mass" is communistic. There is no reason that gravity should apply to the just and the unjust equally, and the saved should have relief from such "universalism." If we have Universal Gravity now, then universal health care will be sure to follow.

It is this kind of universalism that saps a nation's moral fiber. It is not even clear why we need a theory of gravity: there is not a single mention in the Bible, and the patriotic Founding Fathers never referred to it.


Very true , gravity is dubious anyway especially at the edges of our flat earth.
__________________
Interested in smart boat technology, networking and all things tech
goboatingnow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-05-2022, 04:12   #504
Senior Cruiser
 
GordMay's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Thunder Bay, Ontario - 48-29N x 89-20W
Boat: (Cruiser Living On Dirt)
Posts: 49,721
Images: 241
Re: Replace Diesel with electric engine

Quote:
Originally Posted by goboatingnow View Post
Very true , gravity is dubious anyway especially at the edges of our flat earth.
Indeed!

Gravity belongs right up there, along with other subversive communist conspiracies, like:

water fluoridation [saps and impurifies all of our precious bodily fluids],

• the round earth [the surface of the earth is approx 70% water. None of it is carbonated, thus proving the earth is flat],

• climate change [what’s the problem with climate change, ice bergs melting and the sea level rising? I mean, the excess water just flows down the edge of the Earth],

• evolution [clearly broken, since black people haven't developed immunity against bullets],

• and enzymes [things invented by biologists, that explain things which, otherwise, require harder thinking],

and etc...
__________________
Gord May
"If you didn't have the time or money to do it right in the first place, when will you get the time/$ to fix it?"



GordMay is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
diesel, electric, engine

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Any Merit in Subdividing the Engine Subforum into Diesel / Gas and Electric / Hybrid? David_Old_Jersey Engines and Propulsion Systems 8 17-02-2020 06:41
Diesel vs Electric Engine MoxieGirl Electric Propulsion (EP) 81 16-08-2018 15:42
Lines - To replace, or not to replace? TooCoys General Sailing Forum 31 25-04-2017 13:32
Electric Fuel Pump for Diesel Engine onestepcsy37 Engines and Propulsion Systems 9 20-10-2010 05:42

Advertise Here


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 03:36.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.