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Old 13-12-2021, 21:29   #436
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Re: Replace Diesel with electric engine

And yet here in the hinterland Iím stuck with adsl
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Old 01-03-2022, 18:39   #437
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Re: Replace Diesel with electric engine

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Originally Posted by EngineerRetired View Post
So EVERY car manufacture on the planet making the switch has it all wrong? Hmmm, don't think so.



In ten to fifteen years when the price of diesel will be in the $10 a gallon range due to low production and carbon taxes everyone will be switching their boats to electric. Watch and see...

I doubt it.

Remember, we are talking aux power, not main power. Sailboats have a diesel to get off a slip and not too much more. So, even if the unit price of the fuel is high, it will still make sense from an economic point of view.

If batteries ever get cheap, maybe that changes.

There is one type of battery that is cheap, good ole lead acid. I wonder if anyone has done anything with keel mounted SLA systems? I mean, we need a lot of weight low anyway. Why not give it a dual role?
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Old 01-03-2022, 18:57   #438
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Re: Replace Diesel with electric engine

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I doubt it.

Remember, we are talking aux power, not main power. Sailboats have a diesel to get off a slip and not too much more. So, even if the unit price of the fuel is high, it will still make sense from an economic point of view.

If batteries ever get cheap, maybe that changes.

There is one type of battery that is cheap, good ole lead acid. I wonder if anyone has done anything with keel mounted SLA systems? I mean, we need a lot of weight low anyway. Why not give it a dual role?
To much danger of seawater contamination which creates chlorine gas
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Old 01-03-2022, 19:51   #439
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Re: Replace Diesel with electric engine

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I doubt it.

Remember, we are talking aux power, not main power. Sailboats have a diesel to get off a slip and not too much more. So, even if the unit price of the fuel is high, it will still make sense from an economic point of view.

If batteries ever get cheap, maybe that changes.

There is one type of battery that is cheap, good ole lead acid. I wonder if anyone has done anything with keel mounted SLA systems? I mean, we need a lot of weight low anyway. Why not give it a dual role?
75-100yrs ago, it was true that the motor was primarily for manuvering.

Go down to the ICW and watch some time. Probably 90% of the sailboats are motoring.

Yes, battery cost/capacity is the big limitation to a viable mass market electric powered boat.

The problem with making the batteries into a keel is it's too specialized for too small of a market. If you are customizing a battery bank for a car expected to sell 50,000 units per year, it can make sense to spend a lot of money. If you are selling 20 boats per year, not so much.
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Old 01-03-2022, 20:01   #440
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Re: Replace Diesel with electric engine

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75-100yrs ago, it was true that the motor was primarily for manuvering.

Go down to the ICW and watch some time. Probably 90% of the sailboats are motoring.
Because they are not even bothering to utilize the sails. Doesn't mean they can't be sailing. I sail up and down the ICW just fine, and people along the shore often yell out to me how nice it is to see someone sailing because it is indeed rare unfortunately.
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I doubt it.

There is one type of battery that is cheap, good ole lead acid. I wonder if anyone has done anything with keel mounted SLA systems? I mean, we need a lot of weight low anyway. Why not give it a dual role?
Lets be clear. Lead acid is not cheaper than lithium since a few years ago, for sure.

It is not nearly as efficient. The fact that less energy is available back from what you put in from solar or other sources makes everything more expensive. The fact that lithium can last thousands of cycles and can utilize much more of its capacity without degrading makes it cheaper.

As for dual purpose of weight, this only makes sense in monohulls that rely on ballast, but multihulls sail so much more efficiently, they dont really need the capacity as they already exceed the wind speed which gives good sailing nearly all the time.

I did some calculations, and lithium and lead acid batteries both have about the same physical density of cement. They are no where near as good as poured lead, or even iron, but either could be used as ballast. Perhaps a new hull design can utilize them at the expense of slightly more drag with an incredible capacity? What about access for replacement?
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Old 01-03-2022, 20:14   #441
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Re: Replace Diesel with electric engine

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Because they are not even bothering to utilize the sails. Doesn't mean they can't be sailing. I sail up and down the ICW just fine, and people along the shore often yell out to me how nice it is to see someone sailing because it is indeed rare unfortunately.


Lets be clear. Lead acid is not cheaper than lithium since a few years ago, for sure.

It is not nearly as efficient. The fact that less energy is available back from what you put in from solar or other sources makes everything more expensive. The fact that lithium can last thousands of cycles and can utilize much more of its capacity without degrading makes it cheaper.

As for dual purpose of weight, this only makes sense in monohulls that rely on ballast, but multihulls sail so much more efficiently, they dont really need the capacity as they already exceed the wind speed which gives good sailing nearly all the time.

I did some calculations, and lithium and lead acid batteries both have about the same physical density of cement. They are no where near as good as poured lead, or even iron, but either could be used as ballast. Perhaps a new hull design can utilize them at the expense of slightly more drag with an incredible capacity? What about access for replacement?
Would work good in a boat like mine fully encapsulated keel they sling the lead ballast in after the hull is built and set it in a slurry of eesin and shredded mat then glass over it with roving . Just don't bed it in resin but rather some kind on non hardening putty. But yes the weight density would be the big issue
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Old 01-03-2022, 23:56   #442
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Re: Replace Diesel with electric engine

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Because they are not even bothering to utilize the sails. Doesn't mean they can't be sailing. I sail up and down the ICW just fine, and people along the shore often yell out to me how nice it is to see someone sailing because it is indeed rare unfortunately.
If we take this to a silly level, we don't need to travel on pleasure boats at all. Modern boats and sails utilize petroleum based products in their production. Much better for the carbon footprint if we eliminate all unnecessary travel.

Thanks but no thanks. Traveling at a brisk walking pace is already slow enough.

Now back in the real world, the idea that sailboats have a motor purely for auxiliary work is something from the last century and it's unlikely that market expectations are likely to go back to that. Of course, in those days, the cruising community was basically non-existent and largely limited to a few rich folks in their crewed yachts.
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Old 02-03-2022, 03:02   #443
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Re: Replace Diesel with electric engine

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If we take this to a silly level, we don't need to travel on pleasure boats at all. Modern boats and sails utilize petroleum based products in their production. Much better for the carbon footprint if we eliminate all unnecessary travel.
I use used sails that were produced before I was born. They just exist in the world but I am not causing them to be produced. I am fine with not producing any more sails from petroleum products. Furthermore, sails get the equivalence of thousands of miles per gallon of petroleum consumed. The efficiency difference is so vast it is not reasonable to consider burning the oil directly which is foolish and wasteful. The rate of consumption falls below 1% of the emissions of engine power which if applied to all aspects of fossil fuel use would completely mitigate the climate change issue.
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Thanks but no thanks. Traveling at a brisk walking pace is already slow enough.
thanks but no thanks to your selfish mentality that facilitates incompetent behavior: It takes no skill or experience to use engine power. Even if there were no other issues, it isn't interesting to look at, and people who use engines are generally boring people. I don't think sailing at 10-15 knots is a brisk walking pace.
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Old 02-03-2022, 04:42   #444
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Re: Replace Diesel with electric engine

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I use used sails that were produced before I was born.
Exactly, taking it to silly levels.
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Old 02-03-2022, 06:37   #445
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Re: Replace Diesel with electric engine

Quote:
Originally Posted by seandepagnier View Post
I use used sails that were produced before I was born. They just exist in the world but I am not causing them to be produced. I am fine with not producing any more sails from petroleum products. Furthermore, sails get the equivalence of thousands of miles per gallon of petroleum consumed. The efficiency difference is so vast it is not reasonable to consider burning the oil directly which is foolish and wasteful. The rate of consumption falls below 1% of the emissions of engine power which if applied to all aspects of fossil fuel use would completely mitigate the climate change issue.

thanks but no thanks to your selfish mentality that facilitates incompetent behavior: It takes no skill or experience to use engine power. Even if there were no other issues, it isn't interesting to look at, and people who use engines are generally boring people. I don't think sailing at 10-15 knots is a brisk walking pace.
What is your boat made of ? Please be specific to the construction .
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Old 17-03-2022, 20:22   #446
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Re: Replace Diesel with electric engine

That looks about like four 48 volt banks
Three should be enough unless a family of six

They are rated in KWH, around 15KWH should be enough
Two banks enough to start with

How far do you have to motor out to open sailing
I have to go eight miles and that should be plenty,
with enough to come back

Are you going to do the work
If you are DIY there are much cheaper options
Setup looks fine
You will need multiple charge controllers
A good inverter, for electric, induction cooktop, stove, fridge, freezer, microwave, tv's, etc
I see you have a good one
Now you dont have to build your own banks
They are cheap now
You can buy individual batteries with built in BMS
You dont have to add your own external BMS to raw batteries
You can get them as single batteries with built in BMS
or as server rack battery banks with built in BMS
They all need heat, use a pad or heated boat interior
Do not charge below freezing, just put thermostat in battery box.
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Old 17-03-2022, 20:40   #447
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Re: Replace Diesel with electric engine

Did you add an emergency battery kill switch, easily accessible
And I think you are right using one battery bank in my opinion
No more engine and house battery banks
Unnecessary with all the monitoring
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Old 18-03-2022, 00:00   #448
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Re: Replace Diesel with electric engine

Yes 15 Kwh should be enough for an hour. And how to recharge offgrid?
1 m≤ of solar panels harvest 622Wh/d for the one hour one needs 15000 W/48V = 312,5A
15000 / 622 = 24 m≤ of panels.


Oh I forgot recuperation will do the work
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Old 18-03-2022, 04:35   #449
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Re: Replace Diesel with electric engine

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Yes 15 Kwh should be enough for an hour. And how to recharge offgrid?
1 m≤ of solar panels harvest 622Wh/d for the one hour one needs 15000 W/48V = 312,5A
15000 / 622 = 24 m≤ of panels.


Oh I forgot recuperation will do the work
Except we all know nothing works as advertised wrt power generation except for fossil fueled sources.
Regen is definitely an issue unless constantly crossing oceans
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Old 18-03-2022, 13:10   #450
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Re: Replace Diesel with electric engine

I did get a quote to replace my diesel auxiliary with a hybrid setup. Turned out to be 5 times the cost of the diesel replacement and would have given me a fraction of the continuous power b/c the gen set was much smaller than the auxiliary it would replace..... IMHO there is no economically sensible way to make the electric-diesel hybrid work if you want/need continuous power and range.
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