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Old 10-02-2020, 13:27   #31
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Re: Jimmy Cornell goes Electric, with a Cat

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yeah cos theres no emissions expelled in building the boat is there???

sorry but this is just yet more hypocritical virtue signalling

the least emissions path by far would be to NOT BUILD ANOTHER NEW BOAT and make do with an existing one.
Yep. The day the earth is really going to take it in the gut, is when the other 6.9 Billion people, try to live like those of us on this forum live.
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Old 10-02-2020, 14:49   #32
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Re: Jimmy Cornell goes Electric, with a Cat

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This is a short sighted view.

People pushing the envelope of environmentaly sound systems need to test. They are contributing far more to the cause than the impact of one boats production... Get a grip man... you may have been at sea too long yer sounding salty.
Agreed. I was surprised at the tone of this thread. I thought that funding of a tech R&D science project geared toward art-of-the-possible for zero emission would get a more positive reaction. So many common day developments were, at some point, bleeding edge and required vision and investment. Many of sailboats we sail have all benefitted from racing programs, our electronics have benefitted from military research, and battery life has improved due to early investments in cell phones and PCs and such (firefly batteries were originally developed for military applications).

I know a few older people with decent wealth who have adopted similar values of seeking to make a difference not in their immediate life, but leave a legacy of goodness. I view this as an attempt to prime the pump of tech evolution and skew it in a certain direction they are passionate about. Hats off to Jimmy Cornell.
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Old 10-02-2020, 14:58   #33
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Re: Jimmy Cornell goes Electric, with a Cat

The point people miss is that electric drive has many advantages, not just on the emissions front. It is silent, doesn't stink, fantastic torque curve, doesn't need oil changes, it is lightweight (very important in a cat) with very flexible weight distribution. It is expensive to install but cheap to run.

The only real sacrifice is range. Of course, you can increase range by putting in more batteries but then that erodes the lightweight advantage. The big question is how you are going to use the boat. For most of us, if we are honest, we really only manage to get away on the weekends, we motor out of the marina, set the sails and off we go. On the way back, if the wind has dropped we might have to motor for a couple of hours. This is well within the capacity of a well set up electric-drive. For safety sake, it is probably prudent to have a generator onboard anyway. But for me, I would only use it in an emergency. For the extremely rare times when there is no wind and no sun I would just find a nice anchorage, drop the pick, put my feet up and have a beer...and wait for the wind.
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Old 10-02-2020, 15:28   #34
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Re: Jimmy Cornell goes Electric, with a Cat

Well if you guys think you are going to consume your way out of global warming with new tech im sorry to bring the bad news but it's you who are the denialists.

The only way we make a meaningful difference is by changing the way we live not by buying new shiny carbon fibre stuff.

Liveaboard cruisers living frugally are setting a far better example on the environmental front than this PR stunt. But changing the way we live is hard so yeah next distraction please.

Oh here's one

Bill gates is gonna build a hydrogen powered yacht so his buddies can fly in for a weekend the jet off somewhere else.

Wake up!
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Old 10-02-2020, 15:35   #35
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pirate Re: Jimmy Cornell goes Electric, with a Cat

The long road to efficient-sea has to start somewhere.
Look how the aviation industry took off. First we had wooden planes with clunky engines. Now we have carbon fibre 787's with super efficient twin engines. Still a long way to go in both fields.

I have never bought a new boat, house or car, but someone needs to lead the way. I'll catch up in about ten years...
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Old 10-02-2020, 15:38   #36
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Re: Jimmy Cornell goes Electric, with a Cat

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Originally Posted by Cliffhanger View Post
The point people miss is that electric drive has many advantages, not just on the emissions front. It is silent, doesn't stink, fantastic torque curve, doesn't need oil changes, it is lightweight (very important in a cat) with very flexible weight distribution. It is expensive to install but cheap to run.

The only real sacrifice is range. Of course, you can increase range by putting in more batteries but then that erodes the lightweight advantage. The big question is how you are going to use the boat. For most of us, if we are honest, we really only manage to get away on the weekends, we motor out of the marina, set the sails and off we go. On the way back, if the wind has dropped we might have to motor for a couple of hours. This is well within the capacity of a well set up electric-drive. For safety sake, it is probably prudent to have a generator onboard anyway. But for me, I would only use it in an emergency. For the extremely rare times when there is no wind and no sun I would just find a nice anchorage, drop the pick, put my feet up and have a beer...and wait for the wind.
What type of drive system do you have on your boat ? What is the range ?
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Old 10-02-2020, 15:38   #37
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Re: Jimmy Cornell goes Electric, with a Cat

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Agreed. I was surprised at the tone of this thread. I thought that funding of a tech R&D science project geared toward art-of-the-possible for zero emission would get a more positive reaction. So many common day developments were, at some point, bleeding edge and required vision and investment. Many of sailboats we sail have all benefitted from racing programs, our electronics have benefitted from military research, and battery life has improved due to early investments in cell phones and PCs and such (firefly batteries were originally developed for military applications).

I know a few older people with decent wealth who have adopted similar values of seeking to make a difference not in their immediate life, but leave a legacy of goodness. I view this as an attempt to prime the pump of tech evolution and skew it in a certain direction they are passionate about. Hats off to Jimmy Cornell.
Now THAT was well said. A previous poster suggested that we should just stop building new and instead re-use and recycle. That is just naive. R and R has its place but is only a piece of the solution to rampant consumption/consumerism.
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Old 10-02-2020, 15:40   #38
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Re: Jimmy Cornell goes Electric, with a Cat

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One first of all needs to understand were the mineral and chemicals are extracted from to create lithium batteries for all those lovely cars and powering cats , the dredging of the sea floor on behemoth ships sucking the life out of the oceans ...
There are no dredges involved in lithium mining.
Among brine water sources, briny lakes (known as salars) offer the highest concentration of lithium (1,000 to 3,000 parts per million).
Lithium obtained from salars is recovered in the form of lithium carbonate, the raw material used in lithium ion batteries. The production process is fairly straightforward and requires only natural evaporation, which leaves behind not only lithium, but also magnesium, calcium, sodium, and potassium.
The salars with the highest lithium concentrations are located in Bolivia, Argentina, and Chile.
The lithium content of ocean water is far lower, hovering around 0.17 parts per million. However, about 20 percent of the lithium in seawater can be recovered using a combination of membranes, filters, and ion-exchange resins.
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Old 10-02-2020, 15:57   #39
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Re: Jimmy Cornell goes Electric, with a Cat

So no more high latitudes for him, tropics all the way from now on.......no dino juice no heat, maybe he will be burning wood for heat, that works you just need somewhere to store it all.......

Now I don’t get his jumping all over the “new” use your main as your generator stick, then abandoning it for all electric I guess it really wasn’t anything special.....

He can take lessons from the kids on Uma,

https://youtu.be/JHUQiRyVV3Y
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Old 10-02-2020, 18:04   #40
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Re: Jimmy Cornell goes Electric, with a Cat

The most environmentally and navigationally responsible thing to do is put a couple of small diesels in it and use them as little as possible.
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Old 10-02-2020, 18:17   #41
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Re: Jimmy Cornell goes Electric, with a Cat

I'll add a vote that I'm glad they are trying it. To get to the reliability required for large scale adoption and to bring the economies of scale to play and prices down, we need people to take the financial and reliability to risk to move the state of the industry forward. Good on you Jimmy and Outremer for taking a crack at it.

Now who wants to build an offshore cruiser with a wing sail? (doesn't have to be rigid) Lots of reef-able prototypes out there. Pulling on the corners of cloth triangles to change aerodynamics is more archaic than a diesel engine.
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Old 10-02-2020, 18:23   #42
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Re: Jimmy Cornell goes Electric, with a Cat

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The most environmentally and navigationally responsible thing to do is put a couple of small diesels in it and use them as little as possible.
Sounds like he's 80 years old. My hunch is he wants to move the ball forward in a much more long term manner that may open doors for those who follow. If you look at it as an investment in technology vs a reduction in carbon footprint, it makes sense. Environmental equivalent to teaching to fish vs giving a fish.

As an observation, there are a handful of subject matter experts in cruising community who give much, much more than they take. Jimmy Cornell, with his bare-bones Noonsite site is one of them. Compare that to the current crop of YouTube sailers who's value proposition is a Kickstarter campaign begging for money and only want to chat with paid Patreon givers

Cornell's heart is in the right place and he's a great example and role model for the sailing community.
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Old 10-02-2020, 21:45   #43
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Re: Jimmy Cornell goes Electric, with a Cat

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The only real sacrifice is range. Of course, you can increase range by putting in more batteries but then that erodes the lightweight advantage.

And more charging sources. Bigger batteries by themselves do nothing unless you spend most of your time hooked up to shore power.
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Old 11-02-2020, 02:34   #44
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Re: Jimmy Cornell goes Electric, with a Cat

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And more charging sources. Bigger batteries by themselves do nothing unless you spend most of your time hooked up to shore power.
Why would you?
In sunny areas huge solar would work and perhaps there will be a valid solution to use fuelcells sometime in the future.
Also sail much and fast, so you can use hydrogeneration with you electric motors.
Especially for cats, that are able to get the speed it should work.
Oceanvolt get's about 1kW per motor at around 8kn.
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Old 11-02-2020, 03:01   #45
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Re: Jimmy Cornell goes Electric, with a Cat

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There are no dredges involved in lithium mining.
[...]

Well summarized, Gord! Sometimes one just gets tired with all the misinformation that pops up in online forums almost daily...
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