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Old 17-05-2022, 12:17   #16

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Re: Going electric - change my mind

I studied engineering electrical electronic.
Looked at designing electrical system propulsion.

Dad was engineering too. He made great point. Range.
Remember when we in semi protected waters didn't outrun the 4 day 70 knot blow?? We were glad to have carried extra fuel. Normally regardless of weekend, 2 week or 5 week voyage we'd only use 1/4 to 1/2 of 1 of 2 fuel tanks.

Plus easier with electricity and water thing too.
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Old 17-05-2022, 12:24   #17
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Re: Going electric - change my mind

Originally Posted by danstanford View Post
Way easy to take care of and a cinch to put to bed for the winter if you have to do that. I love mine and accept the limitations of the range by buying a suitcase generator for the one time I have needed it!
What motor do you have?
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Old 17-05-2022, 12:31   #18
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Re: Going electric - change my mind

Originally Posted by SaylorMade View Post
What motor do you have?
Never attribute to malice what can be explained away by stupidity.
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Old 17-05-2022, 13:20   #19
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Re: Going electric - change my mind

Originally Posted by SaylorMade View Post
I don't want a larger boat - it's the perfect size for me, and the sailing I do.
How is "buy a larger boat" relevant to the question?
I agree, you don't need a bigger boat....but unless there is something special or sentimental about the boat, you can probably pick up a similar one for $4-5k with a functional drivetrain.

If you simply want a project to play with the technology and an extra $10-15k is not a big deal, go for it.

If cost is a consideration, it's clear cut there is a far cheaper option that gets you on the water with a functional drivetrain. Fuel consumption at 20l/yr is irrelevant to the cost (and if being an eco-warrior counts, it's also pretty irrelevant).

For your use case, electric can work but 9kwh battery bank is going to be very limiting. If you are willing to let weather dictate much of your weekend boating, it's generally going to be workable. Bump that up to a 20kwh battery bank and I think it's quite viable for a weekend boat that lives primarily dockside without a lot of compromise.

As far as convincing you...there's an old saying:

Those convinced against their will are of the same opinion still.
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Old 17-05-2022, 15:15   #20
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Re: Going electric - change my mind

Originally Posted by SaylorMade View Post
.............So, I'm very close to "add to cart" on the electric system - but I want to hear if I am missing something in my thought process here? So - go ahead - change my mind .........
You have done you homework and electric for you works........great choice!! Please let the forum know how the project turned out and what kind of performance you get from it.
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Old 17-05-2022, 15:20   #21
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Re: Going electric - change my mind

While we have not gone electric on our boat, we do have a Torqeedo for the dinghy. The issues will be the same, just scaled up.

The two big drawbacks with the Torqeedo are battery capacity which limits speed and distance travelled and "refill time" the time to recharge the battery compared to putting more fuel in diesel or gas tank.

Given your intended use, day sails and short cruises, then electric should be fine. Just be very mindful of the two limitations I've cited and a limitation to always needing to be in a marina to recharge instead of anchoring out or using a mooring.

It can be done.
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Old 17-05-2022, 15:28   #22
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Re: Going electric - change my mind

Go for it! We have a new epropulsion outboard for dingy this season and used it daily for the past 6 months. We will never go anything but electric again. Not fast, but reliable, and range has not been an issue anywhere in the Caribbean. You will love the quiet. Now the season is over, heading back to land, (and back to our Tesla)
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Old 17-05-2022, 15:30   #23
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Re: Going electric - change my mind

We replaced our diesel with a battery bank 5 years ago and continue to be totally satisfied. A Nonsuch 26. Your sailing plans would work well. And the price of lithium ion batteries has greatly reduced. You will notcregtret the change.
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Old 17-05-2022, 15:30   #24
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Re: Going electric - change my mind

I say go for it SailorMade. I have a 1985 30 ft boat that I have done so much work on that I will never sale it. My point is I know every inch of my boat and learned a lot doing the repairs. When the 13 hp diesel goes out I'll go electric. The big reason is the diesel is the nosiest damn thing and I love it when I hoist the sails and turn off the motor. Keep us updated on your efforts. Good luck!
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Old 17-05-2022, 16:12   #25
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Re: Going electric - change my mind

Why not just "do it"? You know your boat and how you use it and you've already determined that electric propulsion will meet you needs. It would be pretty cool, in my mind, to be able to motor out of the slip, etc., silently. To me, that's always been one of the really special things about sailing... raise the sails, catch the wind and kill the motor... all you hear is the "chuckle" of the water off the bow. Electric propulsion may get pretty close to that! If money is no real detriment, just do it. If you're not happy a year from now, so what? Since money didn't come into the equation, you're not out anything, and nothing is free, even lessons!
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Old 17-05-2022, 16:20   #26
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Re: Going electric - change my mind

I just re-powered my boat with a BetaMarine 35, which is a great engine, but I felt a little dumb doing it, because I think in a few years electric motors for sailboats will be ubiquitous. But the head gasket blew on my 41-year-old diesel, so a decision had to be made, and the choice was either to put a lot of money into a very old engine where finding parts is becoming an issue, or put twice as much into installing a new one. I chose the latter.

I'm interested to hear how it turns out for you, even though I'm not sure I'll ever buy another boat, but if I do, I'll definitely look at electric motors if a new engine is called for.
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Old 17-05-2022, 16:44   #27
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Re: Going electric - change my mind

Do it,
I did it and its perfect for my needs.
In and out of the marina twice a week at least on a lake without shore power four-5 months a year. The lake freezes in winter.
I charge it up to just over 57V prior to launch in spring and only needed to charge with my 2000W inverter generator twice last year. Doesn't really take long to charge. it's just as fast (six knots is easy), only 5000 pound boat though. I'm really happy and it is quiet!!!
Easy to do (48V Thunderstruck so a bit different) I went prop shaft direct to the reduction plate and ditched the chain coupler and that drive rotates super easy.
I can spin the prop from outside (on the hard) with a finger and it rolls about a revolution or so before it stops. not much drag at all. With my baby finger I can turn it easy.
4 X Firefly batts is all I have. I put the batts where the engine was so its quite in balance.
This season I am getting another water tank to go where the fuel tank was under the cockpit and the weight will be spot on.
No regrets. I like my boat and will not worry what I get back on it when it leaves my care.
Don't worry about money, most people spend to much on their boat! I also just spent waaay to much restoring my 2008 Chevy Avalanche but i'm the captain here, Lol.
Anyway theres lots of conversion pix in my album if you want to see them.

Do it if it works for you.
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Old 17-05-2022, 17:14   #28
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Re: Going electric - change my mind

Electric motors are great , efficient, powerful , high torque starting from zero RPM. Batteries are a different issue. You'll be as comfortable with electric as using a gas or diesel engine with only a half gallon of fuel in the tank.

That was the generalities. Now to the specifics of ePropulsion, which I recently looked into.

The pods are scary for boats that have to live in the water . For a trailerable boat the ePropulsion pod may be ok. A Volvo or Yanmar saildrive that has a minor leak may still run to some extent . A minor leak inside an electric drive is an instant disaster.

Epropulsion does not offer spare parts for sale. Repairs are to be handled by your dealer. You haul out the boat, remove the problem part, send it to your dealer who sends it to ePropulsion for repair. These dealers are not prepared to handle electrical and electronics so no matter how small of an issue you have, it will travel thru your dealer to Epropulsion and then returned to you if still under warranty.

Electronics are heavily involved , the motor, controls , battery and charger communicate thru a proprietary ePropulsion method. If something goes wrong with one of these components there's no easy way to diagnose the system.

That's very different from having a diesel transmission cable break.

It is not clear whether the battery may be used as a plain battery, with a third party load. The motor and battery are communicating together. A lot of features are based on the system components communication. A lot of functionality is based on the system making decisions for you. For example if the battery or motor exceeds a certain temperature then it reduces throttle automatically, even if you were pushing it hard to avoid a collision.

In my opinion there are too many interdependencies and proprietary elements in the ePropulsion system .

If you want to use the pod and controls with a third party battery, again some features won't work .

Bottom line, I love the idea of electric despite the still abysmal range limitaitons. I absolutely do not want a proprietary closed system where I am locked into buying an ePropulsion battery . It'd be like having to buy a Volvo fuel tank to use with their diesel and when it fails , remove from boat and send to Volvo thru dealer.
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Old 17-05-2022, 17:41   #29
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Re: Going electric - change my mind

Originally Posted by SaylorMade View Post
Wow - just wow......

This is not about money. I could afford a larger boat, but I don't want one.
I want a well kept boat, that fit my sailing needs, and that I can rely on to be useful when I need it.

And I can assure you that you are not finding any boat of my type for 4K USD around here these days, but I will not even entertain that, since this is not about the size of the boat or what it will be worth. I think I covered that part in the question already.
Wellit appears to be being that you included costs and costs savings in your original post. Dont get bent out of wack when people poke holes in your idea when as ask for hole poking. I for one would not accept a loss of 1-2 knots of cruise speed while paying $15k. Im interested in if the costs include a new sail drive or converting the boat to direct drive? Id consider a repower with a used power plant that burns diesel.
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Old 17-05-2022, 18:01   #30
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Re: Going electric - change my mind

Your boat, your dime. Maybe look at Oceanvolt also. If you are plugging in daily AGMs would work fine in this application and cost less.
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