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Old 31-01-2018, 07:26   #31
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Re: Would you deliver her?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Capt Phil View Post
Hi, where is’... you are getting advice from seasoned and well respected skippers on CF like Boatman and JimCate as well as others.
I ran my own delivery business out of San Diego for many years and from the meager info you provided, I would be inclined to pass on the ‘delivery opportunity’. The lack of an experienced crew is the main reason along with no competent skipper makes it a deal breaker for me. Having spent many years working the commercial marine side, towing log booms, barges and commercial fishing, there have been many close calls caused by inexperienced skippers and crew. There are few places to turn out there for help, particularly when weather turns pear shaped.
Boatman has many years experience sailing the waters you are considering testing. My advice would be to talk the principles into trying to hire him to deliver the vessel and teach the rest of the crew how to handle the boat in adverse conditions.
Good luck on your decision... Phil


Thanks phil!

That is the best advice, really. But I don’t have a say in the decision to hire or fire anyone on board...

i’d like to learn on site from seasoned captains, as i built most of my experience, and make it a learning passage. But it just doesn’t seem like a possibility..
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Old 31-01-2018, 07:31   #32
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Re: Would you deliver her?

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Originally Posted by CarlF View Post
Make sure you trust the engine. Fuel reasonably fresh? Change filters and have spares.



Batteries good and charging system OK?



Then wait for weather. It's winter so the wait may be longer than expected. Don't let the inexperienced skipper "go for it". Insist that you have a weather veto.



And depending on lots of things, this trip could have just enough "offshore" that I'd carry an InReach for weather and two way communication with SAR. Even on other people's boats, I now always carry my own InReach when offshore.


Great advice Carl, thank you!!

I’ll definitely consider that and will be strict on boat’s seaworthiness upon departure!

Weather veto is a very good idea. Thanks for that!
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Old 31-01-2018, 07:40   #33
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Re: Would you deliver her?

If you do go, test run the EPIRB on the boat and carry your own PLB - "Ship of Fools" is a good song to listen to.

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Old 31-01-2018, 07:42   #34
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Re: Would you deliver her?

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Originally Posted by Bean Counter View Post
If you do go, test run the EPIRB on the boat and carry your own PLB - "Ship of Fools" is a good song to listen to.


I will.
Love your humor! A happy boat is key on tough situations too!
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Old 31-01-2018, 08:51   #35
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Re: Would you deliver her?

This trip is not a good trip with no engine or electricity

Here's a 10 minute check that tells you a lot about the boat's maintenance:

Ask the owner when the oil, fuel filters, and seawater impeller were last changed. If he doesn't know - bad sign.

Go to the boat one morning and start the engine from cold. Should start easily. Any smoke should go away quickly.

Change the fuel filter regardless of age (you need to know how to do this and it's a way to make sure there are spares). If the old filter is really bad that's a bad sign.

Turn off charger. If it was charging, battery voltage should not drop below 12.8. Turn on a bunch of 12 volt things for a 20 amp or so load. After 10 minutes turn them off and the voltage should still be close to 12.8. Certainly not below 12.5.

Turn on engine. If the batteries were charged, at 1500 rpm the voltage should go to 14+ and it should charge at least 10 amps.

If the boat flunks any of these things, what else hasn't been maintained?

The day before you go, insist on going out for a quick trip. Run the engine hard to make sure it doesn't overheat. Set each sail. Put a reef in and take it out.
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Old 31-01-2018, 09:16   #36
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Re: Would you deliver her?

For bringing your own PLB or any other emergency communication device, you have to get permission from the skipper.
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Old 31-01-2018, 09:29   #37
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Re: Would you deliver her?

Ha ha ha ha ha ha OMG stop it ,ur killing me..
I was delivering VERTUE 25s up and down that
Coast line during the 70-80s ,,single handed with
Just charts and compass,,,AND in the middle
Of winter AND there were others out there
Doing the same.....
Ho ho ho. Thanks for the laugh guys...
Oh,,and i just delivered a J130 New York to
Lauderdale , solo,no radar/ais....but yes,gps.
Got un yesterday morning..
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Old 31-01-2018, 09:33   #38
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Re: Would you deliver her?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mindsofman View Post
Ha ha ha ha ha ha OMG stop it ,ur killing me..

I was delivering VERTUE 25s up and down that

Coast line during the 70-80s ,,single handed with

Just charts and compass,,,AND in the middle

Of winter AND there were others out there

Doing the same.....

Ho ho ho. Thanks for the laugh guys...

Oh,,and i just delivered a J130 New York to

Lauderdale , solo,no radar/ais....but yes,gps.

Got un yesterday morning..


You sound very skilled and full of yourself and your feats. Not quite sure what you expect to get or help with this very unhelpful post.

But let me tell you, inexperienced crew is bad, but overconfident and vane skipper is worst.

Thank you though, glad to hear you’re still afloat all the way back from woodstock
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Old 31-01-2018, 09:38   #39
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Re: Would you deliver her?

Quote:
Originally Posted by CarlF View Post
This trip is not a good trip with no engine or electricity

Here's a 10 minute check that tells you a lot about the boat's maintenance:

Ask the owner when the oil, fuel filters, and seawater impeller were last changed. If he doesn't know - bad sign.

Go to the boat one morning and start the engine from cold. Should start easily. Any smoke should go away quickly.

Change the fuel filter regardless of age (you need to know how to do this and it's a way to make sure there are spares). If the old filter is really bad that's a bad sign.

Turn off charger. If it was charging, battery voltage should not drop below 12.8. Turn on a bunch of 12 volt things for a 20 amp or so load. After 10 minutes turn them off and the voltage should still be close to 12.8. Certainly not below 12.5.

Turn on engine. If the batteries were charged, at 1500 rpm the voltage should go to 14+ and it should charge at least 10 amps.

If the boat flunks any of these things, what else hasn't been maintained?

The day before you go, insist on going out for a quick trip. Run the engine hard to make sure it doesn't overheat. Set each sail. Put a reef in and take it out.


Excellent help!!
Thanks so much for the insight on the electrical part. Its not my strongest hold.

I will run a test sail and a thorough verification prior to departure. And i’llbe crosschecking it with your helpful post!!

Thanks really
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Old 31-01-2018, 09:44   #40
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Don't rely solely on weather apps for your forecasts.. they are large scale forecasts and can miss localised weather.. the Spanish have regular forecasts in English and Spanish giving localised weather.. use it and heed it.
Remember an owner assist.. got to Almerimar and went in for a refuel.. enough to make Gib for the big fill up and stores for the transat to follow. the sea was like glass.. this was January..
Anyway.. the forecast a couple of hours earlier on the VHF had forecast winds from the West of 30kts on the nose.. I said we should stop over for the night and head on the following afternoon when things were supposed to settle down again.
Big argument from the owner who had a phone weather app saying the opposite and winds from the East out between us and Africa.. so after a lot off back and forth I said 'Okay mate.. its your boat.. you want to go.. we go.'
Should add he was relatively green.. done a few charters and knew what was what..
So.. off we motored to Gib 120nm to the West that evening.. him smirking and loving the mirror we were on. I went below at 0200hrs to get my head down.. one hour later its "Phil.. PHIL.. its pitch black, there's lightning and big waves and winds.. I don't know what to do.."
The local forecast had arrived..
The Portuguese do not broadcast weather reports.. so download the 7 day from passageweather.. another from Windguru which is the surf site and is pretty good for the surf spots that are dotted along the West coast.
Oh..!!! as a result of that little blow, the owner bottled the transat and had the boat loaded onto a Sevenstars ship to St Thomas.
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Old 31-01-2018, 09:48   #41
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Re: Would you deliver her?

I very very rarely use my radar, and only occasionally turn on the ais. This is my first boat that has had either one, and even though I installed them, I just old I guess and stuck in my ways.
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Old 31-01-2018, 09:51   #42
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Re: Would you deliver her?

I joined a boat in Almerimar Spain and headed west through the straight, as you are considering. We spent 1 day provisioning/preparing before casting off for the canaries. The skipper/owner was less than useless, always relying on others to do anything or to decide anything...lots of time on boats, but very little sailing experience. More interested in his next drink than anything else. The other two crew had been grinders on raceboats, and spoke almost no english.

Like you, I was tempted to jump ship, and catch a flight home.

But I stayed.

We had AIS and radar. However, we never turned on the radar...the skipper/owner didn't know how. In the straight the AIS was almost useless, since there were just so many boats. Traversing in daylight with a sharp lookout is what's needed.

Much has been written on the straight, it currents, eddies, tides and weather. You MUST go when the tide is with you, or you will just be going backwards. It much better to go when the wind is light or from the east. With a west wind of any strength you will be going backwards. And the wind is almost always from the west.

So, you need some luck and a weather window. You'll need to make good speed to get through before the tide turns. I recall seeing the rock around 7am, and we were through late in the afternoon. The AIS alarms were going constantly. Yes, a ton of traffic. It was busy, but not oppressive.

I followed my policy of never going ahead of a large vessel. We hugged the south shore.

If you have time to wait for a good weather window, and familiarize yourself with the tides, you will have no trouble. I would be more concerned with the conditions on the coast of portugal, which I have read can be strong and unforgiving.

Radar is for those pitch black nights of zero visibility way out on the ocean.
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Old 31-01-2018, 09:53   #43
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Re: Would you deliver her?

Quote:
Originally Posted by boatman61 View Post
Don't rely solely on weather apps for your forecasts.. they are large scale forecasts and can miss localised weather.. the Spanish have regular forecasts in English and Spanish giving localised weather.. use it and heed it.
Remember an owner assist.. got to Almerimar and went in for a refuel.. enough to make Gib for the big fill up and stores for the transat to follow. the sea was like glass.. this was January..
Anyway.. the forecast a couple of hours earlier on the VHF had forecast winds from the West of 30kts on the nose.. I said we should stop over for the night and head on the following afternoon when things were supposed to settle down again.
Big argument from the owner who had a phone weather app saying the opposite and winds from the East out between us and Africa.. so after a lot off back and forth I said 'Okay mate.. its your boat.. you want to go.. we go.'
Should add he was relatively green.. done a few charters and knew what was what..
So.. off we motored to Gib 120nm to the West that evening.. him smirking and loving the mirror we were on. I went below at 0200hrs to get my head down.. one hour later its "Phil.. PHIL.. its pitch black, there's lightning and big waves and winds.. I don't know what to do.."
The local forecast had arrived..
The Portuguese do not broadcast weather reports.. so download the 7 day from passageweather.. another from Windguru which is the surf site and is pretty good for the surf spots that are dotted along the West coast.
Oh..!!! as a result of that little blow, the owner bottled the transat and had the boat loaded onto a Sevenstars ship to St Thomas.


This is the kind of experience that i take into account. Thanks so much for sharing.

I think you are absolutely right to bring the owner/skipper issue. And i have been in situations where it stood out as a problem.

But im relatively relaxed because i can jump ship if any decision smells. Obviously its not my first choice. But as im not skipper, i reserved the right to weather veto, as suggested by carl, and to jump ship if i feel that my safety and/or of the crew is at risk.
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Old 31-01-2018, 09:54   #44
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Re: Would you deliver her?

I second Jim Cate's comments.

Sounds like some things are butt over teakettle here! Skipper's first responsibility is to keep his crew safe. He can't do that except by keeping his ship safe. How can he do that if he - the nominal skipper - doesn't know what he is doing? How can he do that if his psychology is such that he will accept such a responsibility even though he KNOWS that he is not experience enuff to carry it? How can an experienced man - you perhaps - hope to step in and take over from the inexperienced skipper when the poop hits the fan - as it will? We don't normally make heavy weather of it, but the chain of command exists for a reason. At sea, even among civilians, it HAS to be sound - and it HAS to be observed.

Time to reread Wouk's Caine Mutiny. The psychology of such situations is wonderfully depicted there.

Commitment, such as it is, be damned! Best find some other way to get in your sea time.

TP
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Old 31-01-2018, 10:00   #45
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Re: Would you deliver her?

Quote:
Originally Posted by hamburking View Post
I joined a boat in Almerimar Spain and headed west through the straight, as you are considering. We spent 1 day provisioning/preparing before casting off for the canaries. The skipper/owner was less than useless, always relying on others to do anything or to decide anything...lots of time on boats, but very little sailing experience. More interested in his next drink than anything else. The other two crew had been grinders on raceboats, and spoke almost no english.

Like you, I was tempted to jump ship, and catch a flight home.

But I stayed.

We had AIS and radar. However, we never turned on the radar...the skipper/owner didn't know how. In the straight the AIS was almost useless, since there were just so many boats. Traversing in daylight with a sharp lookout is what's needed.

Much has been written on the straight, it currents, eddies, tides and weather. You MUST go when the tide is with you, or you will just be going backwards. It much better to go when the wind is light or from the east. With a west wind of any strength you will be going backwards.

So, you need some luck and a weather window. You'll need to make good speed to get through before the tide turns. I recall seeing the rock around 7am, and we were through late in the afternoon. The AIS alarms were going constantly. Yes, a ton of traffic. It was busy, but not oppressive.

If you have time to wait for a good weather window, and familiarize yourself with the tides, you will have no trouble. I would be more concerned with the conditions on the coast of portugal, which I have read can be strong and unforgiving.


Great help, thanks so much for taking the time to educate me on some concerns and possible outcomes, Really.

Good and operative advice is gold. Will take your experience in account, definitely.
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