Wintering in Europe?

[Polux]

Nothing like a map of temperature and sun on winter to give you an idea of what to expect:


This site will give you good information based on maps:
Mazarron Camposol Weather - Klimaat - Klima - Tiempo - Meteo

It is not only the temperature but also sunny days. Those maps show that the South of England is not bad but also explain why so many British pass the winter on the Algarve (Portugal), on Andalucia (South of Spain) and South of France.

If you are near a main airport on the South of Europe you will have tickets for almost all European capitals as cheap as 50 euros.

[Pete7]

As Dockhead has suggested I would stop in the Solent rather than sail to London just because there many more marinas available and its easy to get out and sail somewhere nice for a few days in the weather window. France is 12 hours from Cowes.

This is the weather in the Solent today as I look out of the office window and wonder if I should be sailing somewhere Whilst is it warmer than average a nice high system brings cold be clear skies and bright sunshine.

Pete

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Pete7

As Dockhead has suggested I would stop in the Solent rather than sail to London just because there many more marinas available and its easy to get out and sail somewhere nice for a few days in the weather window. France is 12 hours from Cowes.

This is the weather in the Solent today as I look out of the office window and wonder if I should be sailing somewhere Whilst is it warmer than average a nice high system brings cold be clear skies and bright sunshine.

Pete

Nice sailing weather. The whole month of October has been fabulous. And I had to pick this time to be in China


November and December are generally colder and darker than October, but we still sail!


As Polux's charts show, the temperature on the UK South Coast in January is about the same as on the French Riviera. Just darker due to the latitude.

[Polux]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

....
As Polux's charts show, the temperature on the UK South Coast in January is about the same as on the French Riviera. Just darker due to the latitude.

Hum!!! I guess you are not looking right, unless you are talking about the South coast temperature during the day compared with the temperature of French Riviera during the night. Even Brittany seems a bit hotter.

Darker has nothing to do with latitude but with temperature (darker means hotter).

Take for example Russia, at the same latitude than The British South Coast: It is freezing blue.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Polux

Hum!!! I guess you are not looking right, unless you are talking about the South coast temperature during the day compared with the temperature of French Riviera during the night. Darker has nothing to do with latitude but with temperature (darker means hotter).

Take for example Russia, at the same latitude than The British South Coast: It is freezing blue.

Your first chart, which concerns temperatures, shows the UK South Coast, and the French Riviera, in the same color - yellow.

If you drill deeper, using different and more precise sources, Cannes has higher high temps and lower lows, January, than Southampton. That's what you would expect, as Cannes is a land-dominated climate, and Southampton is a maritime climate determined by the warm Gulf Stream.

By "dark" I meant -- less sunlight. In Southampton, at 50N, there are only 8 hours between sunrise and sunset on 1 January. Cannes is at 43N, so a rather longer day in the middle of the winter.

[Polux]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

Your first chart, which concerns temperatures, shows the UK South Coast, and the French Riviera, in the same color - yellow.

If you drill deeper, using different and more precise sources, Cannes has higher high temps and lower lows, January, than Southampton. That's what you would expect, as Cannes is a land-dominated climate, and Southampton is a maritime climate determined by the warm Gulf Stream.

By "dark" I meant -- less sunlight. In Southampton, at 50N, there are only 8 hours between sunrise and sunset on 1 January. Cannes is at 43N, so a rather longer day in the middle of the winter.

Yes the diference in sun hours is huge not only due to less sun hours per day but also due to much less cloud cover.
That has not only to due with latitude, you can see that there are European continental zones with the same color as the South of UK at much higher latitudes.

Regarding the diference on the first map regarding temperature it is big. Yellow for South UK, Orange for the French riviera during the day. During the night there is not a big diference between the two regions. It is what that map shows clearly.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Polux

Yes the diference in sun hours is huge not only due to less sun hours per day but also due to much less cloud cover.
That has not only to due with latitude, you can see that there are European continental zones with the same color as the South of UK at much higher latitudes.

Regarding the diference on the first map regarding temperature it is big. Yellow for South UK, Orange for the French riviera during the day. During the night there is not a big diference between the two regions. It is what that map shows clearly.

You sure do love to argue, Polux

The AVERAGE temperature is about the same, within a couple of degrees. That's all I was trying to say.

And interestingly, there is very little sailing going on in the winter on the Cote d' Azur, a place I love and where I spend a lot of time (I'll be there week after next for a week, in Cannes in fact). I'm not sure why; it's not that cold, and the water is pretty warm in the winter time. Whereas the Solent is always full of yachts under sail, on a nice winter day.

[Polux]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

You sure do love to argue, Polux

The AVERAGE temperature is about the same, within a couple of degrees. That's all I was trying to say.

And interestingly, there is very little sailing going on in the winter on the Cote d' Azur, a place I love and where I spend a lot of time (I'll be there week after next for a week, in Cannes in fact). I'm not sure why; it's not that cold, and the water is pretty warm in the winter time. Whereas the Solent is always full of yachts under sail, on a nice winter day.

I believe thy are less used to cold than the British. If you compare the same map but for July temperature you will see that the diference is much bigger than the diference in winter.

They like and are used to sail on the hot Spring and Summer days...and on Britain those days are not so hot, being the diference to winter temperatures a lot less substantial.

[Dauntlessny]

Having done pretty much what you describe, I'd suggest wintering in Waterford, Ireland.

You don't say what your priorities are, but if money is an issue, you can't beat Waterford.

The winter there is not bad, and it puts you in a good position to start your following year cruise up thru Scotland, then Norway or SE to English Channel and into Baltic.

City Marina in Waterford is right downtown and Ireland has the lowest fuel prices in all is Europe except for Gibraltar.

Sweden, Norway and Scotland can't be beat.

When I get back, I'm considering more time in the Gulf of Bothia.

Richard on Dauntless in Morocco

[Hardhead]

This is great post! I'd like to thank everyone who has contributed-

[Chris Robb]

Originally Posted by Hardhead

This is great post! I'd like to thank everyone who has contributed-

If you are set on London, you could not do better than to use Limehouse Marina and join the Cruising Associations (CA)whose club house is on the Marina and which you could use as a base. If you are heading for anywhere within Europe the CA has huge amounts of up to date information available to help people who are new. They have some 500 overseas members amongst its total membership of 5,500, all of whom join in. Its well placed for London, connected by the Docklands light railway in to the centre of the City of London.

The web site is here
The Cruising Association
Limehouse Marina is here
https://bwml.co.uk/limehouse-basin-marina/

Go for it - London is cheap at the moment as we want to leave Europe and they are wanting to punish us!!

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Chris Robb

If you are set on London, you could not do better than to use Limehouse Marina and join the Cruising Associations (CA)whose club house is on the Marina and which you could use as a base. If you are heading for anywhere within Europe the CA has huge amounts of up to date information available to help people who are new. They have some 500 overseas members amongst its total membership of 5,500, all of whom join in. Its well placed for London, connected by the Docklands light railway in to the centre of the City of London.

The web site is here
The Cruising Association
Limehouse Marina is here
https://bwml.co.uk/limehouse-basin-marina/

Go for it - London is cheap at the moment as we want to leave Europe and they are wanting to punish us!!

The Cruising Association is an absolutely fantastic resource. I highly recommend joining it.

And London of course is incomparable, and a wonderful place to spend any amount of time. Still expensive even with the current GBP rates, but worth every penny.

Limehouse Basin, OTOH, is pretty far from civilization unless you have friends living in working in Canary Wharf or the Docklands. In my opinion, this is a bit of the worst of both worlds -- far from the sea in case you want to do some sailing, yet not really in London. Only if you really don't care about sailing during the winter, would I recommend such a thing.

[conachair]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

Limehouse Basin, OTOH, is pretty far from civilization unless you have friends living in working in Canary Wharf or the Docklands. In my opinion, this is a bit of the worst of both worlds -- far from the sea in case you want to do some sailing, yet not really in London..

It is actually probably the closest marina to the tube network, Limehouse staton right next to the marina with tower bridge or Bank just a couple of stops away and Greenwich the other way, also Thames clipper riverbus not too far a walk away at canary warfe. As far as seeing London goes it's the best situated now that St Kats seems to be not interested in us any more. Not too much locally though some great pubs nearby with good walks up and down the Thames should the sun come out, and cheap good indian restaurant around. Another plus is on a winter deal you can get packages delivered for you to the marina office

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by conachair

It is actually probably the closest marina to the tube network, Limehouse staton right next to the marina with tower bridge or Bank just a couple of stops away and Greenwich the other way, also Thames clipper riverbus not too far a walk away at canary warfe. As far as seeing London goes it's the best situated now that St Kats seems to be not interested in us any more. Not too much locally though some great pubs nearby with good walks up and down the Thames should the sun come out, and cheap good indian restaurant around. Another plus is on a winter deal you can get packages delivered for you to the marina office

All true, but it's still not really in London.

It's a shame about St. Kats -- have they stopped taking transients altogether, or what's the deal there now?

For spending time in London over a winter while living on your boat, the Solent is pretty decent. It's just over an hour by rail from Southampton Central to Waterloo station. Then you don't have to give up sailing, either.

[conachair]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

All true, but it's still not really in London.

It's a shame about St. Kats -- have they stopped taking transients altogether, or what's the deal there now?

For spending time in London over a winter while living on your boat, the Solent is pretty decent. It's just over an hour by rail from Southampton Central to Waterloo station. Then you don't have to give up sailing, either.

Middle of the east end isn't really in London?? Would you prefer one on oxford Street??

You seem to be approaching it from more of a weekend/summer cruising perspective - overwintering for a long term cruiser is a different deal with very different things making difference. It's your winter home, not spending a few days in a hotel.
Like it or not, you'd be hard pressed to find a cruising boat over wintering in Europe popping out for day sails, people just don't do it. The boat gets into house mode with various little varnishing etc projects on the go, just doesn't happen.

Having a few other boats around makes a difference, so Limehouse will have some, and as mentioned some social activity across the canal at the Cruising Association. St Kats was good for our friends across the water with them having a little america coffee morning once a week. Though St Kats was a bit like living in a gold fish bowl.

Various other things can make a difference, good walks, ability to have post sent (Amazon sending to post offices and ebay to argus has helped in this respect) , decent supermarkets/cafes/one decent bar nearby. The Solent might be great for weekenders but wintering not so great, best price I got last winter was a month in Gosport, lets face it a @#$%hole unless you really like pound shops and Weatherspoons (hmmm, come to think of it... ) And you're on your own, no like minded boaties around.

Brighton's not bad, nice town, good walks, horrible white marina but quite a few other liveaboards and decent supermarket right there.

St Kats went down hill a few years ago when the whole estate was sold for several hundred million and the helpful harbour master sacked. Now, last I heard, they seem more interested in monster gin palaces. Shame but Limehouse is only a few minutes away on the DLR and not so much like living in a theme park.