US Citizens, Long Stay Visa in France - have questions

[Montanan]

Originally Posted by dannc

FBAR is very dangerous. Unless the law has changed, if one does comply with FBAR, the penalty can be 50% of the highest amount one had in an overseas account not what is currently in the account. The Wall Street Journal had a story on this years ago. I don't think the law has changed but the Fed's said they would not enforce the law to that extant...

Another tax issue to investigate if establishing residency overseas is inheritance, either what one might inherit or what one might want to leave to others.

US Department of Treasury
Financial Crimes and Enforcement Network [FINCEN]

https://www.fincen.gov/report-foreign-bank-and-financial-accounts


Purpose of the FBAR
A United States person that:
has a financial interest in or signature authority over foreign financial accounts must file an FBAR if the aggregate value of the foreign financial accounts exceeds $10,000 at any time during the calendar year.

Per the Bank Secrecy Act, every year you must report certain foreign financial accounts, such as bank accounts, brokerage accounts and mutual funds, to the Treasury Department and keep certain records of those accounts. You report the accounts by filing a Report of Foreign Bank and Financial Accounts (FBAR) on Financial Crimes Enforcement Network (FinCEN) Form 114.

When to file
The FBAR is an annual report, due April 15 following the calendar year reported. You’re allowed an automatic extension to October 15 if you fail to meet the FBAR annual due date of April 15. You don’t need to request an extension to file the FBAR.

Who must file
A U.S. person, including a citizen, resident, corporation, partnership, limited liability company, trust and estate, must file an FBAR to report:

a financial interest in or signature or other authority over at least one financial account located outside the United States if
the aggregate value of those foreign financial accounts exceeded $10,000 at any time during the calendar year reported.

Generally, any account at a financial institution located outside the United States is a foreign financial account. Whether the account produced taxable income has no effect on whether the account is a foreign financial account for FBAR purposes.


https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/p5569.pdf


Penalties
You may be subject to civil monetary penalties and/or criminal penalties for FBAR reporting and/or recordkeeping violations. Assertion of penalties depends on facts and circumstances. Civil FBAR penalty maximums in Title 31 of the United States Code are adjusted annually for inflation. Publication 5569, Report of Foreign Bank & Financial Accounts (FBAR) Reference GuidePDF contains information about criminal penalties.

The minimum criminal penalty for a specific WILLFUL violation of a US Code citation appears to be US$10,000 and / or 5 years imprisonment. The US takes its Bank Secrecy Act very stringently.

The civil penalties for Non-willful violation also seem be a minimum of $US10,000 or the greater of 50%.

https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-3...ction-1010.821

[dannc]

Originally Posted by Montanan

...
The civil penalties for Non-willful violation also seem be a minimum of $US10,000 or the greater of 50%.

https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-3...ction-1010.821

The 50% penalty is the most horrible part of the law. If one transferred $100,000, say from a house sale, to an overseas account, and did not comply with FBAR, the Feds could take $50,000 out of the account. If one had anything less than $50,000 in the count, the would take it all. From what I read, all without a court order.

[katy415]

[QUOTE=Montanan;3891462]fyi



If you are a U.S. citizen or resident alien, the rules for filing income, estate, and gift tax returns and paying estimated tax are generally the same whether you are in the United States or abroad. You are subject to tax on worldwide income from all sources and must report all taxable income and pay taxes according to the Internal Revenue Code.




Yup, all US citizens must file and must pay tax on US earned income. The US and France have a tax agreement so that money earned in France has tax paid in France and money earned in the US has tax paid in the US. THAT IS - unless you are one of those lucky folks to earn more that approximately $95K in france, then double taxation being to apply to the money earned over that amount.

I am not one of those ! But generally, the tourist visa is given to people who are not working in France but just being 'tourists' and thus no French tax applies.

THE VAT - my tired eyes last night did not see that the boat was being built in La Rochelle ! Out of my depth here, but I like the idea of instantly exporting it or buying for export ...


And inheritance tax - yikes, a can of worms!

Good luck!!

Katy

[more]

Originally Posted by tparsons

All-



We are US citizens, our new catamaran is coming out of the factory end of April in La Rochelle, France. We will have 3+ months of commissioning work to do, then shake down trips to work the bugs out before we depart.



We don't want any of our time in France to count against our 90 day Schengen limit. So, we opted for 1 year Long Stay Visas in France. Just received them!



Question:
Does anyone on this thread have first hand knowledge(meaning you have had or have a France long stay visa) and have entered other Schengen countries with your US Passport and visa attached and the boarder agents HONORED the France Visa and DID NOT STAMP your passports???



We have heard that a France Long stay visa will work in all the Schengen Countries. If this is true we could spend up to 1 year in any of these countries without being subjected to the 90 day rule.....

for now what i know. Portugal and Croatia only acept document for D visa in portugal call D7 visa. in croatia D visa for people who have money from USA and want stay long term,buy super cheap ruin,move to EU .and have passive income 2-3000€ month

or for you france visa

https://www.etias.org/blog/france-di...20more%20years.

[katy415]

[QUOTE=Montanan;3891458]French tax residency.

Useful guidance: There is more than just the 183 day rule.

https://www.cabinet-roche.com/en/french-tax-residency-the-183-days-rule/

Snipet:

Article 4A of the French General Tax Code establishes an essential division around the notion of tax residence:

Individuals domiciled in France are subject to income tax on all their worldwide income,
Other individuals not domiciled in France are only taxed on their French source income.
It is therefore essential to know if your tax residence is in France or not.

==================================================

I don't know how to make those nice boxes y'all make! The long stay visa is only a tourist visa - anyone with a long stay tourist visa is not permitted to work, earn money in France, and they do not pay tax. Anyway, the USA insists that money earned in the States (IRA, Social Security etc) has tax paid in the States and the French are cool with that.

Remember this is a tourist visa, not the same thing as normal residency....

K

[dannc]

Originally Posted by katy415

...
I don't know how to make those nice boxes y'all make! ...
...

The easiest way is to use the quote box which is five icons to the left at the top of where text is entered. The quote box looks like a talk bubble if that helps.

[dannc]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

...
In practice, because of the lack of internal borders, there is little control over how long you spend in other Schengen countries, so you could probably get away with spending 179 days in France and the rest of the year in other Schengen countries but there are new systems of control coming on line and it's not actually legal, so you might want to be careful with that....

The Great All Knowing YouTube Algorithm showed me a video a month or so ago that was interesting and scary.

A car with Belgium plates crossed the border into the Netherlands. There were at least two men in the car, but there could have been more, and they had what sounded like Indian accents. They were NOT speeding when a motor cycle officer pulled them over. The officer was a member of the Marechaussee which has boarder control as one of it's duties.

The officer had the car follow him for quite some time along the motor way and then along a secondary road. That was Scary 1. Scary 2 is that the officer led to an out of the way park where they traffic stop was conducted and their documentation checked. It appeared they were checking passports along with other documentation. There was part 2 to this video which I meant to watch but it disappeared before I could, and of course, I can't find either video when I search.

[Montanan]

Originally Posted by katy415

==================================================

I don't know how to make those nice boxes y'all make! The long stay visa is only a tourist visa - anyone with a long stay tourist visa is not permitted to work, earn money in France, and they do not pay tax. Anyway, the USA insists that money earned in the States (IRA, Social Security etc) has tax paid in the States and the French are cool with that.

Remember this is a tourist visa, not the same thing as normal residency....

K

Hi K, there are different kinds of National D type visas each which has specific allowed purposes and activities of the long stay permit.

Extended tourism is not one of the typically allowed purposes.

Types of National Visas
National (D) Visas are typically issued for the following reasons:

To study in a Schengen country for longer than three months
To work in a Schengen country
To move to a Schengen country for family reunification with an EU national (e.g., your spouse)
For “Work and Travel” programs
For retirement in a Schengen country
For investment or setting up a business in a Schengen country
For working in a Schengen country as a digital nomad
Other.

Tourism is typically limited to the 90 days in a rolling 180 day period as per the Schengen protocol but extended stay may be allowed for appropriate "private reasons".

[Paul Reading]

Would the OP please explain how he obtained a long term visa from France. It would be very useful for others who might also like to stay for more than 90 days. Seemingly we do not quality for category D so how did you do it?

[Montanan]

Originally Posted by Paul Reading

Would the OP please explain how he obtained a long term visa from France. It would be very useful for others who might also like to stay for more than 90 days. Seemingly we do not quality for category D so how did you do it?

Paul:

Immigration will make a determination between the applicant who needs to versus an applicant that would like to [wants].

The standard 90 days suffices most everyone's wants when viewed from a national policy basis. If one stays for more than half the time one is no longer visiting, one is becoming a resident. Immigration desires foremost that you will depart.

So come up with a solid reason to need to stay longer than 90 days in any 180 rolling period.

A potential purpose would be to conclude the outfitting and construction and commissioning and test sailing of a boat being purchased in France. A need for long stay and a delayed departure from France is well established. This is directed to facilitating significant commerce of France and high value transactions, much more than purchasing meals and entertainment. Visas [permissions] are granted for the purpose of the country that issues it, not for the convenience of the person requesting such.

A long stay visa is based on explicit requisite purpose and that purpose cannot be extended to other purposes.

It also can help "if you know someone". By way of example, a member of the Board of Directors of the company I have cofounded was formerly the US Ambassador to a major country in Asia which requires visas to be issued to visit. Ordinarily, it takes a couple of months to obtain an interview appointment at either that country's embassy in Washington D.C. or at one of their consulates. The ex-ambassador and his wife retain close and friendly relations with the country. One call by his wife and two expedited appointments were scheduled [one in Washington D.C. and the other in San Francisco] for the beginning of the next week with ten-year, multi-visitation visas issued on three of my engineering associates' passports upon their departure from the formal interview.

[tparsons]

All-



I am the OP. I will articulate how I obtained the D visa.



We purchased a new Catamaran from Fountaine Pajot. The Cat comes out of the factory in 1 week. My Wife and I are retired and we will be deeply involved in the commissioning process locally in La Rochelle. This process, along with 2-3 day shake down trips, training, etc. will be approx 4 - 6 months of time. A few of the requirements for a Long Stay (D) Visa are as follows:

-Proof of EU Health insurance for the year
-Proof that (in our case) we will be living on our own boat during our stay. (Marina address, FP Sales Contract)
-A declaration statement stating your intent, why you need the visa
-A statement saying you WILL NOT WQRK
-Proof of financial means(Bank/Investment statements)


There's A couple more minor things, but these are the big factors. We don't want ANY of our time in France to count against the 90 rule because we are leaving France and Cruising the Med/Adratic Greek & Turkish Islands....

[Colin Stone]

We had a boat built in NL in 2004/2005. It was exported to UK without paying NL VAT. Imported into UK under the New Means of Transport - Cars, Boats, Aircraft - when it had to arrive with less than 100 boat engine hours. And as a Qualifying Ship UK VAT paid at 0%. (Actually due to a QS argument with HMRC we did pay £27k VAT, so have an excellent VAT invoice, but the £27k was quickly refunded when I notified HMRC of my Barrister. We won both VAT Tribunal + High Court cases. Costs expensive for HMRC!!).
Our boat lives in France and was there on 31 Dec 2021, so VAT deemed paid.
Each May to Nov we get a French VLS-T D Visa, 6 months multiple entry, which includes 90 days in other Schengen countries. France is unusual in granting D visas for tourism reasons, other countries eg Switzerland, NL, B don't.
In the period Nov - May, we use our Schengen 90 days. Brief visits to the boat en route Switzerland to ski for most of the winter. I still have to watch the FR 183 days.

[SV Coronado]

I also picked up my boat in La Rochelle but opted not to get a long-term French Visa. As I understand it, the short answer is that your visa gives you one year in France, not one year in the Schengen region. The 90-day rule applies once you leave France. However, there are no borders because of the Schengen Agreement, so no one would know if you drove from France to Spain, Portugal, and back to France. However, if you tried to board a flight out of Lisbon, they may see the entry stamp from France and fine you for overstaying your 90-day limit. The burden of proof would fall on you to prove you hadn't been out of France for over 90 days.

This topic has been discussed way too many times on the Med Sailing group on Facebook. I suggest you check it out.

We spent a long time in La Rochelle. DM me if you need any info. We love LR!

[Montanan]

Originally Posted by SV Coronado

I also picked up my boat in La Rochelle but opted not to get a long-term French Visa. As I understand it, the short answer is that your visa gives you one year in France, not one year in the Schengen region. The 90-day rule applies once you leave France. However, there are no borders because of the Schengen Agreement, so no one would know if you drove from France to Spain, Portugal, and back to France. However, if you tried to board a flight out of Lisbon, they may see the entry stamp from France and fine you for overstaying your 90-day limit. The burden of proof would fall on you to prove you hadn't been out of France for over 90 days.

This topic has been discussed way too many times on the Med Sailing group on Facebook. I suggest you check it out.

We spent a long time in La Rochelle. DM me if you need any info. We love LR!

Correct as to crossing by car, but when transiting by boat one has to check in at each border entry and with the immigration being electronic databases it is simple to have Schengen visa monitored by the authorities.

[SV Coronado]

Originally Posted by Montanan

Correct as to crossing by car, but when transiting by boat one has to check in at each border entry and with the immigration being electronic databases it is simple to have Schengen visa monitored by the authorities.

You don't have to check in/out when sailing between Schengen countries.