UK boats could lose EU VAT paid status

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by wolfgal

The price is according to what is written on the boat's papers:

16m = 39e30/day or 193e50/week
18m = 45.50/day or 223.20/week

the restaurant known for oysters is called Comptoir à Huitresn located very close to the marina

i looked for their info in English but...

https://www.pagesjaunes.fr/pros/55828427


hope this helps


wolfgal

Well, the weekly price is very reasonable. This looks like an excellent variant in case Cherbourg is full.


Thanks very much for your help on this!

[roland stockham]

This should not be a surprise but will be one of many shocks to come. People in the Britain have go so used to a borderless Europe the have forgotten what it is like to deal with customs everytime the go abroad. They opted to pay duty on all goods crossing the channel, give up lots of advantages like having the same rules for everything from boat status to registration for nurses teachers docktors etc. It is going to be chaos for the next 10 years and they wont know what has hit them!. I would be laughing but half my pension is from the UK and I am expecting to loose at least 25% of it as the ecconomy tanks and the pound devalues. Probably the biggest hit which is already starting will be the loss of overseas investment. Companies like Honda have already frozen investment. No point in making cars in the UK if you have to add export duty to sell them and the UK market on its own is not big enough to sustain a car industry. This is why all the industry organisations campaiged against Brexit.
A lesson for everyone else however (apart from getting your boat in the right plave) is that this is the result of issolationist and me first politics that is happening around the world. As cruiser we rely on a freindly reception by hoast countries that has been the norm for the last 60 years. There are worrying signs that that may be changing to a 'keep out stranger' mentality in many places.

[ArmyDaveNY]

Originally Posted by roland stockham

This should not be a surprise but will be one of many shocks to come. People in the Britain have go so used to a borderless Europe the have forgotten what it is like to deal with customs everytime the go abroad. They opted to pay duty on all goods crossing the channel, give up lots of advantages like having the same rules for everything from boat status to registration for nurses teachers docktors etc. It is going to be chaos for the next 10 years and they wont know what has hit them!. I would be laughing but half my pension is from the UK and I am expecting to loose at least 25% of it as the ecconomy tanks and the pound devalues. Probably the biggest hit which is already starting will be the loss of overseas investment. Companies like Honda have already frozen investment. No point in making cars in the UK if you have to add export duty to sell them and the UK market on its own is not big enough to sustain a car industry. This is why all the industry organisations campaiged against Brexit.
A lesson for everyone else however (apart from getting your boat in the right plave) is that this is the result of issolationist and me first politics that is happening around the world. As cruiser we rely on a freindly reception by hoast countries that has been the norm for the last 60 years. There are worrying signs that that may be changing to a 'keep out stranger' mentality in many places.

I have to respectively disagree. People have been dealing with this for centuries, and cruisers for decades. Here in the U.S. crossing into Canada and back again used to be a very short and hassle free stop and customs. Now a driver's license is no longer sufficient and one requires a passport or passport card. The passport card is only a temporary solution and eventually event that will not be sufficient. Even before Brexit, many countries required one to acquire the necessary paperwork, check in, make declarations, etc. It's not that big of a deal. As far as the other doomsday scenario, maybe but maybe not.

More important, it really is off topic for this thread. From what I have read, we really don't know how this will play out. It is possible that boats that have paid the VAT will be covered in terms of VAT. It is possible that they won't be covered and a second VAT will have to be paid. It is also possible that there will be ways around a second VAT. Perhaps a business will spring up in the Faroe Islands or in Ireland where boats will be sold and then imported in the EU proper via these locations, avoiding the VAT. Only time will tell.

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by roland stockham

This should not be a surprise but will be one of many shocks to come. People in the Britain have go so used to a borderless Europe the have forgotten what it is like to deal with customs everytime the go abroad. They opted to pay duty on all goods crossing the channel, give up lots of advantages like having the same rules for everything from boat status to registration for nurses teachers docktors etc. It is going to be chaos for the next 10 years and they wont know what has hit them!. I would be laughing but half my pension is from the UK and I am expecting to loose at least 25% of it as the ecconomy tanks and the pound devalues. Probably the biggest hit which is already starting will be the loss of overseas investment. Companies like Honda have already frozen investment. No point in making cars in the UK if you have to add export duty to sell them and the UK market on its own is not big enough to sustain a car industry. This is why all the industry organisations campaiged against Brexit.
A lesson for everyone else however (apart from getting your boat in the right plave) is that this is the result of issolationist and me first politics that is happening around the world. As cruiser we rely on a freindly reception by hoast countries that has been the norm for the last 60 years. There are worrying signs that that may be changing to a 'keep out stranger' mentality in many places.

Don't Panic.!!!
As for Honda and Nissan thats more to do with diesel engines no longer being acceptable because of pollution and general cutting back by the auto industry..
Thats why Ford are laying off 5000 car workers in Germany.
Its all Project Fear at the moment.

[boatman61]

Pressures off.
Short of the EU calling for No Deal on the 12th your safe for at least another 12mths..
Either a Genneral Election or Leave/Stay 2.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by boatman61

Pressures off.
Short of the EU calling for No Deal on the 12th your safe for at least another 12mths..
Either a Genneral Election or Leave/Stay 2.

I'm not sure I interpret the events of today so optimistically.


This is what the BBC is reporting: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-p...ments-47696409


A no-deal Brexit is still on the menu, and something other than Theresa May's deal will still have to be agreed with the EU, AND will have to be agreed in time.


I judge the risk of a no-deal Brexit on 12 April to be significant. It will happen if any of the following occurs: (a) Parliament votes for it; (b) the courts don't uphold the bypassing of the Government on this; or (c) whatever solution Parliament agrees on, cannot be agreed with the EU in time. Note that ALL 27 EU leaders have to agree. If even one of them is against or even just on vacation or something -- no deal.



It is probably the biggest constitutional cluster fumble I've ever witnessed.


We will truly be witnesses to history, this week.

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

I'm not sure I interpret the events of today so optimistically.


This is what the BBC is reporting: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-p...ments-47696409


A no-deal Brexit is still on the menu, and something other than Theresa May's deal will still have to be agreed with the EU, AND will have to be agreed in time.


I judge the risk of a no-deal Brexit on 12 April to be significant. It will happen if any of the following occurs: (a) Parliament votes for it; (b) the courts don't uphold the bypassing of the Government on this; or (c) whatever solution Parliament agrees on, cannot be agreed with the EU in time. Note that ALL 27 EU leaders have to agree. If even one of them is against or even just on vacation or something -- no deal.



It is probably the biggest constitutional cluster fumble I've ever witnessed.


We will truly be witnesses to history, this week.

(a) No chance
(b) No chance
(c) Unlikely.. They aint gonna toss out 12billion/yr.. Budget cannot afford it..

[cuffy]

Well said Sir!

[Dockhead]

We shall see.


We are witnesses to history this week.


No one wants a no deal Brexit except the DUP and the most extreme of the Leavers. That is a minority of the forces at play.


The others are starting to gradually leave off bluffing that they would prefer a no deal Brexit to whatever their pet version is (cancel Brexit, long transition, Norway style, etc.) and are now starting to try to find their way to some position they can unify around.


The indicative votes is a clever idea and a way to push that forward. Just should have been done months ago .



I am actually starting to think that Theresa May's deal has a chance after all. Something like 7 Conservative MP's have already changed their positions. If the EU would throw in something even symbolic on the Irish Backstop, that could seal the deal.



We shall see!

[tp12]

I wish I could be so optimistic about Brexit but, after living in the UK for ten years, I also have a pension there.

Dismissing expert advice from people who have studied in their fields their entire lives as 'Project Fear' can only be described, at best, as blind optimism. The UK is in for a rocky road and, in my opinion, has fanned the flames of Indyref2 sufficiently to be the death of the Union.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by tp12

I wish I could be so optimistic about Brexit but, after living in the UK for ten years, I also have a pension there.

Dismissing expert advice from people who have studied in their fields their entire lives as 'Project Fear' can only be described, at best, as blind optimism. The UK is in for a rocky road and, in my opinion, has fanned the flames of Indyref2 sufficiently to be the death of the Union.

Who said I'm optimistic?

I consider crashing out of the EU on 12 April to be an absolutely real possibility, and I'm making serious preparations for that eventuality.

That is however not the only possible outcome, and I also consider it possible that something else, quite possibly even Mrs. May's much maligned, could still be pulled out.

That does not make me an optimist

But we'll see very soon, won't we?

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by tp12

I wish I could be so optimistic about Brexit but, after living in the UK for ten years, I also have a pension there.

Dismissing expert advice from people who have studied in their fields their entire lives as 'Project Fear' can only be described, at best, as blind optimism. The UK is in for a rocky road and, in my opinion, has fanned the flames of Indyref2 sufficiently to be the death of the Union.

If Brexit does happen Indyref2 would be the biggest mistake the SNP could make.. they would have to meet all the obligatory requirements to join EU as a new member and without the huge subsidies from the rest of the UK I doubt they would come close to meeting the fiscal requirements for new EU members.. tho' they would have the 'Spite' factor working for them..

[CatNewBee]

The post is indeed very confusing, it seems to be done to stir uncertainty and anger to activate Remainers protesting the Brexit.

This is simply stupid, if the vessel is a VAT paid vessel in any EU country and it sails under a EU flag, it simply visits UK and cannot lose the VAT status, same if you sail to the US.

When the tax was paid in the UK during the time the UK was member of the EU and a EU citizen buys the vessel, it will be EU VAT paid for sure.

On the other hand, as non-EU citizen after Brexit, you are no longer subject to EU VAT anyway, so the 18 month rule will apply.

What happens if you want to keep the boat permanently in EU waters under the British flag may be a different story, but if it is registered under an EU flag (e.g. with a charter company within the EU) , there will be no problems at all I guess, but then this company pays taxes within the EU and is not subject to the VAT anyway.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by CatNewBee

The post is indeed very confusing, it seems to be done to stir uncertainty and anger to activate Remainers protesting the Brexit.

This is simply stupid, if the vessel is a VAT paid vessel in any EU country and it sails under a EU flag, it simply visits UK and cannot lose the VAT status, same if you sail to the US.

When the tax was paid in the UK during the time the UK was member of the EU and a EU citizen buys the vessel, it will be EU VAT paid for sure.

On the other hand, as non-EU citizen after Brexit, you are no longer subject to EU VAT anyway, so the 18 month rule will apply.

What happens if you want to keep the boat permanently in EU waters under the British flag may be a different story, but if it is registered under an EU flag (e.g. with a charter company within the EU) , there will be no problems at all I guess, but then this company pays taxes within the EU and is not subject to the VAT anyway.

Not "simply stupid" at all -- you don't understand the issues.


VAT status has nothing to do with flag state or where the boat is normally based. If other agreements are not made, then VAT status of EU and UK boats will fork on Brexit day. So where the boat is physically located on Brexit day will determine whether the boat becomes EU but not UK VAT paid, or vice versa.


This might be semi-ok for some people who are able to use the 18 months TI scheme. But this can be a total disaster for people like me who will be ineligible to use the TI scheme in Europe by virtue of having a European residence permit. Losing EU VAT-paid status would force me to pay VAT again, or sell the boat in the UK, or never enter EU waters with her.



Could be a total disaster for say French people who happen to be in the UK with their French flag boats on Brexit day, if some corrective regulation or legislation is not enacted to protect them from loss of EU VAT-paid status.


This is a very serious problem. If you're interested in understanding it, I can suggest the RYA legal department pages on it.

[CatNewBee]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

Not "simply stupid" at all -- you don't understand the issues.


VAT status has nothing to do with flag state or where the boat is normally based. If other agreements are not made, then VAT status of EU and UK boats will fork on Brexit day. So where the boat is physically located on Brexit day will determine whether the boat becomes EU but not UK VAT paid, or vice versa.


This might be semi-ok for some people who are able to use the 18 months TI scheme. But this can be a total disaster for people like me who will be ineligible to use the TI scheme in Europe by virtue of having a European residence permit. Losing EU VAT-paid status would force me to pay VAT again, or sell the boat in the UK, or never enter EU waters with her.



Could be a total disaster for say French people who happen to be in the UK with their French flag boats on Brexit day, if some corrective regulation or legislation is not enacted to protect them from loss of EU VAT-paid status.


This is a very serious problem. If you're interested in understanding it, I can suggest the RYA legal department pages on it.

This will not apply to french people with french flag boat where ever they are on Brexit day . They are just abroad. It will apply - if ever - only to Britisch flagged vessel and Britisch people.. EU citizen will not loose their EU VAT because of location when Brexit occurs. EU citizen are not affected by Brexit at all when sailing / remaining under EU flag.