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Old 27-03-2019, 11:24   #46
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Re: UK boats could lose EU VAT paid status

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Originally Posted by CatNewBee View Post
This will not apply to french people with french flag boat where ever they are on Brexit day . They are just abroad. It will apply - if ever - only to Britisch flagged vessel and Britisch people.. EU citizen will not loose their EU VAT because of location when Brexit occurs. EU citizen are not affected by Brexit at all when sailing / remaining under EU flag.

If there is a special provision of French law, then perhaps this is true, but in general, all goods physically located in either the UK or EU on the day of Brexit will lose their VAT paid and customs duty paid status in the part of the former EU they are not physically in.



And again, flag and nationality of the owner has nothing whatsoever to do with VAT or customs duty status of boats or any other goods, UNLESS there is some special law which gives French flag boats and/or French people some relief from this ridiculous result, and if there is, then hats off to the French.


There is a loophole known as the "Returning Goods Regime" which can help, but there are various conditions and qualifications to this, and if you don't know that you have to file documents to get the benefit of it, then you might lose it.


And of course it is possible that the French tax people will simply not know about a French boat being in the UK on Brexit day. HOWEVER, note that from Brexit day, all vessels traveling to France to UK can't simply sail over any more -- they will have to declare themselves and go through customs control, and you might get caught at that stage.




There SHOULD be laws which say that all boats which were EU goods, VAT and customs duty paid, will continue to have that same status in BOTH the EU AND in the UK, after Brexit -- that would be only fair. But AFAIK there is no such law anywhere yet. Might be agreed in the process of negotiating the new relationship, whatever that turns out to be, but I doubt that this will be the top item on the list of the million issues to be worked out.


So it's really worth being really careful about this!!
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Old 27-03-2019, 15:36   #47
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pirate Re: UK boats could lose EU VAT paid status

Dockhead.. Relax.. after Brexit you will just do what I did in the 80's.. tie up at the island pontoon, dinghy to the dock with boat papers and passport and clear in.. just l8ke today only this time the passport gets stamped and you get assigned a berth to move to..
Jeez... Much ado about nothing..
Re the 18mth.. you just do summers in the EU at the moment then head back to the UK.. whats the problem in the future.. Chill man..
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Old 27-03-2019, 21:27   #48
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Re: UK boats could lose EU VAT paid status

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Originally Posted by boatman61 View Post
Dockhead.. Relax.. after Brexit you will just do what I did in the 80's.. tie up at the island pontoon, dinghy to the dock with boat papers and passport and clear in.. just l8ke today only this time the passport gets stamped and you get assigned a berth to move to..
Jeez... Much ado about nothing..
Re the 18mth.. you just do summers in the EU at the moment then head back to the UK.. whats the problem in the future.. Chill man..

You missed the bit about my having an EU residence permit. EU residents do not get to use the Temporary Importation regime for non-EU boats, and are not allowed to use non-VAT paid boats in European waters.


Brits who are not EU residents will be treated as you describe, without any big problems, getting 18 months at a time like Yanks do now, but not me.



However, even Brits who are presently not EU residents might want to pay attention if they ever think they might become EU resident in the future.



It will be a massive problem for a number of people, if there is a sudden no-deal Brexit.
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Old 27-03-2019, 21:36   #49
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Re: UK boats could lose EU VAT paid status

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Originally Posted by Dockhead View Post
If there is a special provision of French law, then perhaps this is true, but in general, all goods physically located in either the UK or EU on the day of Brexit will lose their VAT paid and customs duty paid status in the part of the former EU they are not physically in.



And again, flag and nationality of the owner has nothing whatsoever to do with VAT or customs duty status of boats or any other goods, UNLESS there is some special law which gives French flag boats and/or French people some relief from this ridiculous result, and if there is, then hats off to the French.


There is a loophole known as the "Returning Goods Regime" which can help, but there are various conditions and qualifications to this, and if you don't know that you have to file documents to get the benefit of it, then you might lose it.


And of course it is possible that the French tax people will simply not know about a French boat being in the UK on Brexit day. HOWEVER, note that from Brexit day, all vessels traveling to France to UK can't simply sail over any more -- they will have to declare themselves and go through customs control, and you might get caught at that stage.




There SHOULD be laws which say that all boats which were EU goods, VAT and customs duty paid, will continue to have that same status in BOTH the EU AND in the UK, after Brexit -- that would be only fair. But AFAIK there is no such law anywhere yet. Might be agreed in the process of negotiating the new relationship, whatever that turns out to be, but I doubt that this will be the top item on the list of the million issues to be worked out.


So it's really worth being really careful about this!!
Since you’re a US citizen, simply document your boat in Rhode Island for about $100 to avoid paying the VAT and use your US passport for check in when entering the EU. Alternate passports if you need to stay more than 90 days. Maybe spend some time in Russia to avoid VAT.

Join the club and chill.
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Old 27-03-2019, 21:53   #50
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Re: UK boats could lose EU VAT paid status

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Originally Posted by Kenomac View Post
Since you’re a US citizen, simply document your boat in Rhode Island for about $100 to avoid paying the VAT and use your US passport for check in when entering the EU. Alternate passports if you need to stay more than 90 days.

Join the club and chill.

An EU resident, regardless of citizenship, is not allowed to use the TI regime so is not entitled to the 18 month slack.


I have to have an EU residence permit for my work, unfortunately.


Alternative passports is a "creative" solution for the Schengen issue. Might work for the moment so long as the SIS is not tracking individual entries and exits, but I would be careful with that! They have other ways of catching you, and SIS is being updated.




For me, a much easier, totally legal and safe way to avoid these problems is to simply preserve the VAT-paid status of my boat in the EU by having her physically in EU waters on Brexit day.


The trick of course is knowing when that day will occur!
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Old 28-03-2019, 00:57   #51
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Re: UK boats could lose EU VAT paid status

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Originally Posted by Dockhead View Post
An EU resident, regardless of citizenship, is not allowed to use the TI regime so is not entitled to the 18 month slack.


I have to have an EU residence permit for my work, unfortunately.


Alternative passports is a "creative" solution for the Schengen issue. Might work for the moment so long as the SIS is not tracking individual entries and exits, but I would be careful with that! They have other ways of catching you, and SIS is being updated.




For me, a much easier, totally legal and safe way to avoid these problems is to simply preserve the VAT-paid status of my boat in the EU by having her physically in EU waters on Brexit day.


The trick of course is knowing when that day will occur!
DH
You are an EU resident now, but you won't be after BREXIT. Or at least after a hard Brexit. Then you should be able to use th e Temp Import 18 month scheme.
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Old 28-03-2019, 01:07   #52
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Re: UK boats could lose EU VAT paid status

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DH
You are an EU resident now, but you won't be after BREXIT. Or at least after a hard Brexit. Then you should be able to use th e Temp Import 18 month scheme.
I'm not a UK resident at all! Only the boat lives there, and only in the winter. The whole problem is that I have a residence permit in a Nordic country which remains in the EU after Brexit.
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Old 28-03-2019, 01:24   #53
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Re: UK boats could lose EU VAT paid status

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I'm not a UK resident at all! Only the boat lives there, and only in the winter. The whole problem is that I have a residence permit in a Nordic country which remains in the EU after Brexit.
Now that gets complicated. Is your boat UK registered? What a friggin mess this Brexit is. It is pretty astounding how leaderless the Brexit team seems to be.
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Old 28-03-2019, 02:06   #54
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Re: UK boats could lose EU VAT paid status

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Now that gets complicated. Is your boat UK registered? What a friggin mess this Brexit is. It is pretty astounding how leaderless the Brexit team seems to be.

Yes, the boat is UK registered, but apparently that doesn't mean anything at all with regard to VAT paid (and customs cleared) status. Apparently any item of goods which was formerly VAT-paid and customs-cleared in all of the EU including the UK will become so only with respect to one or the other, depending on where it is physically located on the day the border appears. Yes, that's a mess! I suppose that there must be future legislation to soften the obvious unfairness of that (what about Frenchies who happen to be cruising in UK waters on the day??), but AFAIK none exists at all at the moment, other than the RGR loophole.



On the subject of UK politics -- don't get me started
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Old 28-03-2019, 16:15   #55
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Re: UK boats could lose EU VAT paid status

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I'm not a UK resident at all! Only the boat lives there, and only in the winter. The whole problem is that I have a residence permit in a Nordic country which remains in the EU after Brexit.
Move your boat over to France, Netherlands or Belgium until this mess gets settled. I needed to travel to Italy last September and move our boat 800 miles when the Italian government without warning changed the VAT IVA rules last summer. Venice to Montenegro to Venice

How far is France? 30-40 miles?
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Old 29-03-2019, 08:00   #56
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Re: UK boats could lose EU VAT paid status

I have dual nationality (English/Dutch) my boat is registered on the UK SSR, but is based here in the Netherlands where I mostly live, & will be here on Brexit day

However the boat is documented as being built in 1980 & so is not subject to the VAT regulations, does anyone know if the VAT status will alter in this case?
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Old 29-03-2019, 08:18   #57
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Re: UK boats could lose EU VAT paid status

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I have dual nationality (English/Dutch) my boat is registered on the UK SSR, but is based here in the Netherlands where I mostly live, & will be here on Brexit day

However the boat is documented as being built in 1980 & so is not subject to the VAT regulations, does anyone know if the VAT status will alter in this case?
I don't think anyone knows, hence my post concerned vessels too old for VAT was ignored.
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Old 29-03-2019, 11:25   #58
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Re: UK boats could lose EU VAT paid status

Admiral 31's 1980 boat is exempt from the EU VAT rule because of its age. Older vessels built before 1985 are deemed VAT paid if they were in the EU on December 31, 1992 which relates to formation of the single market. His boat therefor has free circulation in the EU and is treated just like a later one that had paid EU VAT. So provide it is the EU on Brexit day, he is safe
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Old 31-03-2019, 08:55   #59
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Re: UK boats could lose EU VAT paid status

Good news for UK boats
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Old 31-03-2019, 09:31   #60
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Re: UK boats could lose EU VAT paid status

excellent news! thank you for posting!

bumping this post
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