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Old 20-01-2021, 09:03   #1
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UK Boat + Skipper staying longer than 90 days in the Med?!

Hi Team,

I appreciate there probably isnít a clear answer to this yet (which is why Iím asking) but if anyone has any experience or a clearer picture please feel free to share.

I am British and my Rassy is British flagged but she is in Greece (and has been pre-Brexit so retains her EU VAT Tax status). I am hoping to move onboard for a full year some time in the next few months.

What I canít work out is how I can stay on her for longer than 90 days in Greece given we are now subject to the 90 days in a 180 day period rule.

I was wondering if there were any AUS/NZ/US sailors or anyone else, who have spent more than 90 days in the Med who understand the extension process on the Schengen Visa.

Iíve heard of people doing residence permits, skipping over to Croatia or Turkey. Just interested if anyone has any good suggestions or an idea of how complicated it will be.

Thanks all
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Old 20-01-2021, 10:45   #2
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Re: UK Boat + Skipper staying longer than 90 days in the Med?!

There is no confusion

Yes your boat retains her VAT status , as long as you never leave EU waters , so no trips to Montenegro or Albania !!

The only way you can stay longer then 90 in 180 is to apply for Greek residency status . Certainly in Lefkas where I am , the Brits were running around prebrexit getting such cards

There is no extension under Schengen , ( because Schengen has no remit outside tourist visas ) any long stay visas are purely on a EU national affair , on a country by country basis . Note that residency in Greece , will not necessary allow you to spend long periods in other EU countries

Note that staying longer then 6 months ( if you can ) or getting a residency makes you EU tax resident , Be careful you understand any implications

Getting Greece residency pre breast wasn't difficult , usually stuff like needing a Greek back account etc , some work with a lawyer/notary . Prebrexit UK citizens had a " right" to live in Greece therefore the residency process was merely a formality . Now I can't say what the stipulations are for " third country " states like the UK

Some EU countries have specific log stay arrangements with NZ/AUS . again this is a " national competency " and nothing to so with Schengen. It may be in time such extensions may apply to the UK. These typically require bilateral arrangements
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Old 20-01-2021, 11:35   #3
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Re: UK Boat + Skipper staying longer than 90 days in the Med?!

Quote:
Originally Posted by goboatingnow View Post
There is no confusion

Yes your boat retains her VAT status , as long as you never leave EU waters , so no trips to Montenegro or Albania !!
That is not true. the boat can leave the EU for a maximum of 3 years. If longer than 3 years it will loose it's VAT paid status.

Quote:
Originally Posted by goboatingnow View Post
The only way you can stay longer then 90 in 180 is to apply for Greek residency status . Certainly in Lefkas where I am , the Brits were running around prebrexit getting such cards

There is no extension under Schengen , ( because Schengen has no remit outside tourist visas ) any long stay visas are purely on a EU national affair , on a country by country basis . Note that residency in Greece , will not necessary allow you to spend long periods in other EU countries

Note that staying longer then 6 months ( if you can ) or getting a residency makes you EU tax resident , Be careful you understand any implications

Getting Greece residency pre breast wasn't difficult , usually stuff like needing a Greek back account etc , some work with a lawyer/notary . Prebrexit UK citizens had a " right" to live in Greece therefore the residency process was merely a formality . Now I can't say what the stipulations are for " third country " states like the UK

Some EU countries have specific log stay arrangements with NZ/AUS . again this is a " national competency " and nothing to so with Schengen. It may be in time such extensions may apply to the UK. These typically require bilateral arrangements
Correct; extended visa's or residence permits are country based. However when you are in the country with a residence permit or extended visa, the clock stops. When you leave that country and enter a different Schengen country the clock resumes again. https://www.schengenvisainfo.com for more info.
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Old 20-01-2021, 11:39   #4
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Re: UK Boat + Skipper staying longer than 90 days in the Med?!

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Originally Posted by De.windhoos View Post
That is not true. the boat can leave the EU for a maximum of 3 years. If longer than 3 years it will loose it's VAT paid status.


.
Sigh...

That is a system knows as RGR , Returned Goods Relief. Its only available to EU tax established individuals , It is NOT available to someone tax established in the UK.

Their boat retains its EU VAT status until it leaves EU waters , it can return under the TAP procedure for 18 months


( and my red is bigger then yours too !!!)
PS : I don't know how many times I have said this over the years on VAT
PPS: There is actually no such thing as a VAT status , goods are in free circulation or they are not, please indicate to me an EU document that mentions VAT status
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Old 20-01-2021, 12:10   #5
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Re: UK Boat + Skipper staying longer than 90 days in the Med?!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marriner View Post
Iíve heard of people doing residence permits, skipping over to Croatia or Turkey. Just interested if anyone has any good suggestions or an idea of how complicated it will be.

Thanks all
So looks like the options are take out Greek res or even Turkish res like ABSea sailing


Or as a last resort you could write to the EU asking if we can come back
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Old 20-01-2021, 12:20   #6
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Re: UK Boat + Skipper staying longer than 90 days in the Med?!

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Originally Posted by Pete7 View Post
So looks like the options are take out Greek res or even Turkish res like ABSea sailing


Or as a last resort you could write to the EU asking if we can come back
A purchase of a Greek residence of €250,000 or more can entitle you to greek residency
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Old 20-01-2021, 12:20   #7
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Re: UK Boat + Skipper staying longer than 90 days in the Med?!

Quote:
Or as a last resort you could write to the EU asking if we can come back
There is an EU form for that
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Old 21-01-2021, 09:47   #8
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Re: UK Boat + Skipper staying longer than 90 days in the Med?!

Quote:
Originally Posted by goboatingnow View Post
There is no confusion

Yes your boat retains her VAT status , as long as you never leave EU waters , so no trips to Montenegro or Albania !!

The only way you can stay longer then 90 in 180 is to apply for Greek residency status . Certainly in Lefkas where I am , the Brits were running around prebrexit getting such cards

There is no extension under Schengen , ( because Schengen has no remit outside tourist visas ) any long stay visas are purely on a EU national affair , on a country by country basis . Note that residency in Greece , will not necessary allow you to spend long periods in other EU countries

Note that staying longer then 6 months ( if you can ) or getting a residency makes you EU tax resident , Be careful you understand any implications

Getting Greece residency pre breast wasn't difficult , usually stuff like needing a Greek back account etc , some work with a lawyer/notary . Prebrexit UK citizens had a " right" to live in Greece therefore the residency process was merely a formality . Now I can't say what the stipulations are for " third country " states like the UK

Some EU countries have specific log stay arrangements with NZ/AUS . again this is a " national competency " and nothing to so with Schengen. It may be in time such extensions may apply to the UK. These typically require bilateral arrangements
I take it "Getting Greece residency pre breast..." is referring to a tits up process.
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Old 21-01-2021, 09:56   #9
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Re: UK Boat + Skipper staying longer than 90 days in the Med?!

One could pursue a Greece Golden Visa. It is a residence-by-investment visa, issued to non-EU citizens who make a significant contribution to the Greek economy. There are several investment options, but the most common route is through purchasing real estate

Investment Options for the Golden Visa for Greece
To qualify for a Golden Visa for Greece, you must make one of the following investments:

Purchase a real estate property worth at least Ä250,000
Sign a lease agreement with a hotel or tourist establishment for at least 10 years
Make a capital investment of at least Ä400,000 in a company registered in Greece
Make a Ä400,000 investment in Greek government bonds.
Make a Ä400,000 investment in bonds or shares of real estate investment companies.
Make a Ä400,000 deposit in a Greek bank.
Make an Ä800,000 investment in corporate or government bonds.

Eligibility criteria for a Greek Golden Visa are:

You must be over the age of 18.
You must not have any history of criminal records, in any country in which you have lived.
You must make a significant investment in Greece (see the investment options above).
You must have obtained health insurance from a company operating in Greece.
Benefits of the Greek Golden Visa
A Greek Golden Visa is one of the most competitive Golden Visas in the EU and is accompanied with the following benefits:

The threshold investment options are relatively lower than in most other EU countries with Golden Visa routes.
You can extend the visa to include your family members, like your spouse, (unmarried) children under 21 years of age, and dependent parents of either yourself or your spouse. If your child is over the age of 21, but no older than 24, and they are a student, they may also be included in the Golden Visa application.
You and your family members will enjoy visa-free travel to the Schengen Zone.
There are no requirements to live in Greece for any duration in order to renew the residence permit.
You can choose to rent out your property after purchase.
You can apply for Greek citizenship after seven years of residence. Greece is an EU Member State, so you would have access to the EU free market and visa-free travel to more than a hundred countries.
You can live, work, and invest in Greece.
You have access to Greek education and healthcare
Duration of a Greece Golden Visa
The Golden Visa for Greece is issued for five years and can be renewed indefinitely as long as you maintain the investment.

If you ultimately choose to live in Greece, then after seven years of continuous residence, you can also apply for Greek citizenship.

How Long Do You Need to Live in Greece to Renew the Golden Visa?
Unlike most other countries who issue Golden Visas, you do not need to live in Greece at all in order to renew the residence permit. You can keep renewing it every five years, as long as you have still maintained your investment.

To renew the residence permit, you have to provide proof that the real estate property is still in your ownership or a solemn declaration by the relevant representatives that the investment is still ongoing.

Can You Get Greece Citizenship by Investment?
Yes, you can become a Greek citizen by making an investment in Greece and obtaining the Golden Visa. However, unlike residency, you cannot apply for Greek citizenship without actually living there and paying taxes. You must live in Greece for at least seven years before being eligible to apply for citizenship.

In addition, you must also be able to prove you have ties to the country and knowledge of the Greek language and culture, at least on a basic level.

How to Apply for a Greece Golden Visa?
You have to apply for a Greek Golden Visa at the Alien and Immigration Department at the Decentralised Authority in Greece. Before that, you must apply for an entry visa at one of the Greek Embassies or Consulates abroad. An outline of the Golden Visa application process is:

Apply for a Greek national visa at an Embassy or Consulate.
Enter Greece and finalize your investment. It is your choice whether you decide to hire professional legal help through this step.
Collect the required documents for the Greek Golden Visa.
Submit the documents at the local Alien and Immigration Department.
Wait for the visa to be processed. You will usually hear back about a decision within 3 months.
If the decision is positive, you have to travel back to Greece and submit your biometric information.
You will receive a Golden Visa residence permit, which will be valid for five years.
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Old 21-01-2021, 09:58   #10
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Re: UK Boat + Skipper staying longer than 90 days in the Med?!

In Greece there is also another option, albeit not permanent, only for 10 months (still better than the basic 90 d).
This option is called Financial Independence Visa.
Based on proof of steady monthly income of over € 2,000 (there more ways of proving financial ability). Needs a lot of paperwork but doable.
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Old 21-01-2021, 09:59   #11
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Re: UK Boat + Skipper staying longer than 90 days in the Med?!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete7 View Post

Or as a last resort you could write to the EU asking if we can come back
Wouldn't that be the subject for the start of a new thread, titled: BRENTRY.



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Old 21-01-2021, 10:05   #12
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Re: UK Boat + Skipper staying longer than 90 days in the Med?!

And one comment more.
If you have an Greek extended visa (like the Financial Independence memtioned by me above) or Greek residence permit, you can travel freely within the EU, as there are no internal borders so nobody can know how long you actually are out if Greece so you can always claim the 90 Schengen days allowance if asked at all.
Usually, the check are only at EU borders, so as long as you enter/leave the EU through Greece everything should be fine.
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Old 21-01-2021, 10:18   #13
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Re: UK Boat + Skipper staying longer than 90 days in the Med?!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marriner View Post
Hi Team,



I am British and my Rassy is British flagged but she is in Greece (and has been pre-Brexit so retains her EU VAT Tax status). I am hoping to move onboard for a full year some time in the next few months.

What I can’t work out is how I can stay on her for longer than 90 days in Greece given we are now subject to the 90 days in a 180 day period rule.

I’ve heard of people doing residence permits, skipping over to Croatia or Turkey. Just interested if anyone has any good suggestions or an idea of how complicated it will be.

Thanks all
[QUOTE=goboatingnow;3324391]

Yes your boat retains her VAT status , as long as you never leave EU waters , so no trips to Montenegro or Albania !! Or other non-EU territory, e.g., Turkey. Exporting a good [e.g. a boat] from the EU removes it from free circulation, reentry of such good invokes an importation which entails such issues as customs duty and VAT, but as goboatingnow has indicated there is a work around by pursuing the Temporary Import Permit which invokes the 18 month limited stay of the good [e.g, the boat] in the EU

Note that staying longer then 6 months ( if you can ) or getting a residency makes you EU tax resident , Be careful you understand any implications
An individual who is present in Greece for a period exceeding 183 days, cumulatively during any 12-month period is considered to be a Greek tax resident as of their first day of arrival in Greece. Not dissimilar in basis to the 90 cumulative days in any 180 day period of the Schengen short stay visa protocol. Note that the 183 days is within a rolling 12 month time period, not a calendar year.


/QUOTE]
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Old 21-01-2021, 10:32   #14
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Re: UK Boat + Skipper staying longer than 90 days in the Med?!

Welcome to our world says the Canadian with a Spanish flagged boat, 3 months in per year ( don’t want the other 3 months) the boat was bought VAT paid and stays in Spain.....

I take it there are allot of UK citizens who will NOT be spending the whole winter on the Spanish coast, ahh.....we could see that coming.
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Old 21-01-2021, 10:36   #15
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Re: UK Boat + Skipper staying longer than 90 days in the Med?!

Now that someone has raised the Remainer flag....
I'd much rather the UK remained an independent sovereign country, thanks, but if we ever had to join a larger entity, why not become part of the USA?
My tongue is in my cheek - but not very far. It makes as much or more sense than being part of the future United States of Europe, after all.
We are no further away from Continental US than Hawaii - more or less.
We founded the place;
We speak the same language - more or less;
We have a shared culture - more or less;
We have a history of working (& fighting) together - most of the time;
Unlike most of Europe, we haven't been at war with them for over 200 years;
Ulster, Scotland & Wales would each become states of the US which would solve those problems at a stroke;
England would split into say 4 large (by population) states (Northumbria, Mercia, Wessex, London) which would stop people moaning about the north/south divide;
and the Democrats would love it because our middle left politics would mean the Republicans never got back into power again.

Happy New Year ...
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