Turkish Tourist Visa Changes ?

[Katiusha]

We've been some of the people this law is going to expell: we've been in Turkey since 2010 (reason: translit log can be renewed once before you need to leave the country and come back, so we decided to use it to the fullest extent) and we having been living on tourist visas (45 EUR for 90 day visa). We've ended up crossing paths with a lot of Turkish people and expats and have sailed the coast extensively.

My two cents regarding the replies above:

* Who is this new law aiming to exclude? People, who use 90 day visas to work here year after year (we have met a lot of these people). Mostly it's people in tourism and service industries from UK, France, Germany, Holland, Russia and ex-soviet republics. There are also expats living in common law arrangement with Turks. I was talking a Marmaris - Rhodos ferry to renew the visa and British women were the overwelming majority of the passengers. When we all got back to Marmaris, I was the only one met by a non-Turkish guy...

* You CANNOT use a PO box for residency - your application will get rejected. It's not just an address they require for residency. It must be a 1+ year marina contract or a property OWNERSHIP paper. [Not sure if it can be a 1+ year property rental contract...]

* An average tourist stays in Turkey for 45 days - yes, so long because there are a lot of CHEAP tourism rentals and the summer is long.

* Turkey paused its lobbying for becoming a part of EU and is actively pursuing closer ties with US (as yachties this last summer would have noticed a bloom of joint military, marine, and air exercises). My personal view is that Turkey will continue sitting on the fence because it also really likes ties with middle East and Arabian investments.

* Tourism is one of the major economic sectors In Turkey with yearly contributions of $22+ bln to the country's revenues [2008 numbers]. So a reduction in tourism would have a noticeable impact on country's economy.

[goboatingnow]

The situation regarding length of stay and visas etc for EU citizens will no doubt change soon. Turkey is engaged in a diplomatic battle to ease visa restrictions on turkish visitors to the EU and the expectation is that soon visa requirements will be removed, expect a consequence removal of such visa requirements and length of stay issues etc for EU citizens soon.

"The EU Commissioner of Interior Affairs Cecilia Malmstrom has indicated on 29 September 2011 that visa requirement for Turkish citizens will eventually be discontinued. Visa liberalization will be ushered in several phases. Initial changes are expected in the fall on 2011 which will include the reduction of visa paperwork, more multi-entry visas, and extended stay periods."

dave

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by donradcliffe

Dave,

I think you skipped your meds again! Ask the boatworkers in Italy or Turkey if they like these new rules as they contemplate unemployment. The US is not immune to idiotic politicians--the luxury tax destroyed the boatbuilding industry here and put thousands out of work.

Ive been to italy recently, the boat workers are facing unemployment, because the export market for italian boats, especially in medium and large GRP motor cruisers has died a death. nothing to do with wealth tax.

The wealth tax was inevitable in Italy as so many luxury goods are bought with undeclared income. The tax applies to a range of luxury items. Yes it will have some effect on Italian boatbuilding, but unlike the US, with did not have an export market for its boats, the Italian boat building is very heavily export focused and hence the wealth tax isn't a big factor.

As to marinas, chandleries, etc, yes it will have some effect, no doubt driving some out of the boating market. But in effect Italians have no where to go, most boaters are in the hobby not from financial prudence and the revenue authorities are betting that there will be a net gain from such taxes. Expect them to get nuanced and changed as the years roll along.

The situation cannot be compared to the US boatbuilding industry that in all likelihood would have gone out of business anyway for many reasons.

People with assets hate wealth taxes, however Italy needs revenue and this is just one place to find it. The alternative is Vat or income tax rises, which hit the poor and low paid disproportionately, cause inflation or reduce consumer spending. Also wealth taxes are popular with the working classes,

Dave ( Ive left the meds around here somewhere.....?)

[svBeBe]

Originally Posted by Pete7

Don, it wont destroy the boating industry in Turkey. Folk will still need boats fixed and since the visas apply to people not boats they will still be in Turkey even if the owners have to do a quick border trip or pay $80 for residency, hardly the end of the world.

Pete

The whole point of the new rules is that one can no longer "do a quick border trip" as you suggest.

And residency will cost far more than $80. The required marina will cost us $9,255 based on today's exchange rate. Plus the costs of obtaining the residency visa; plus the 180 lira each per month for the required Turkish medical services plan; plus whatever minor banking fees for maintaining a local bank account. And at least one-half of that $9,255 will be wasted because we will never sit in that marina except during inclement winter weather. By my calculations, that is around $7,089 wasted.

Hardly the end of the world. But I don't waste 7 grand happily.

Judy

[beneteau-500]

kas marina are currently offering a 18 month contract for the price of one yr marina and the days your yacht are not in marina dont count cost for this is 4,800 euros for a 15 meter yacht

[SVAspen]

As BeBe states, this is a lot of money to stay in Turkey! Why would anyone want to stay in Turkey then when there are other options - we have a sailboat and it can sail to other places that actually want us to stay!!

[David_Old_Jersey]

Originally Posted by SVAspen

As BeBe states, this is a lot of money to stay in Turkey! Why would anyone want to stay in Turkey then when there are other options - we have a sailboat and it can sail to other places that actually want us to stay!!

Yes

Come and pay some EU VAT , and stay long enough in one place and we will make you fully Tax Resident .....and for non-payment will seize yer boat .

South of Europe folk can find out what the taxes are spent on - mostly about ensuring that the locals don't eat each other. or Visitors.

[svBeBe]

Originally Posted by David_Old_Jersey

Yes

Come and pay some EU VAT , and stay long enough in one place and we will make you fully Tax Resident .....and for non-payment will seize yer boat .

South of Europe folk can find out what the taxes are spent on - mostly about ensuring that the locals don't eat each other. or Visitors.

Doesn't a single day outside of the EU allow the 18-month VAT clock to be re-set? Sail down to Morocco or Tunisia from Spain or France or to Albania from Italy; spend 1 night; sail back to EU place of choice in order to avoid VAT. Infinitely easier to deal with than the 90-in/90-out rule. Just plan those trips outside the nasty weather Med winter season.

BTW, I cannot imagine having to depart Turkey in weather like we have been experiencing lately in Cyprus. Much too cold and windy to be setting out to sea. 90-days cannot get one through a Med winter anywhere. Much easier to comply with the 18-month VAT rule.

Judy

[David_Old_Jersey]

Originally Posted by svBeBe

Doesn't a single day outside of the EU allow the 18-month VAT clock to be re-set? Sail down to Morocco or Tunisia from Spain or France or to Albania from Italy; spend 1 night; sail back to EU place of choice in order to avoid VAT. Infinitely easier to deal with than the 90-in/90-out rule. Just plan those trips outside the nasty weather Med winter season.

BTW, I cannot imagine having to depart Turkey in weather like we have been experiencing lately in Cyprus. Much too cold and windy to be setting out to sea. 90-days cannot get one through a Med winter anywhere. Much easier to comply with the 18-month VAT rule.

Judy

My understanding is that the 1 day out to reset the boat 18 month VAT clock is not explicitly written anywhere (I stand to be corrected) - just seems to be an accepted norm. and probably will remain that way, until it changes. (IMO 18 months in and 18 months out would seem reasonable - with a fee for getting the 18 months VAT Free ).

But I doubt that 1 day out also re-sets personal Tax residence - otherwise every European would have left their own EU country to work and live in another - tax free ......with occasional day trip overseas (or 2 weeks in the sun ). If you are tax resident in a single EU country then a very good argument that you have also imported the boat, no matter that it has an 18 month exemption - and VAT on yer boat may be the least of yer problems $$$ .....in practice that would mean moving between countries at least every 6 months......which I don't think is unreasonable for someone claiming to only be a Visitor / Tourist.

I appreciate that the above may be a somewhat pessimistic interpretation of the rules (I ain't no European tax expert ) - but the world changes, and with technology nowadays it is perfectly possible to collect taxes on folks who previously were too much of a PITA to chase after. Plus IMO much of the EU being broke (especially the bits in the sun!) is a short term incentive to start collecting the previous uncolletable (even if at a long term cost)....if "you" were a local Politico, who would you rather tax (and be seen to tax) - a local voter (without 2 euros to rub together)? or a "rich" foreigner, who can't vote?

[boatman61]

One also has to remember that the 'Motorhome Brigade' have an effect on the locals as well...
Here in Fig da Foz, Portugal there's a huge parking area near the breakwater... every year its packed with motor homes from N.Europe... the only folk who benefit are the supermarkets and gas stations...
But to the locals its a lotta pains in the butts taking up their beach space, littering their town at their expense.. and often offending sensibilities in dress and customs..
What we have here is a country finally putting restrictions on oversea's vistors similar to those placed on its own citizens abroard...
As has been previously stated... they've finally accepted the the 'Branco's' don't really want 'Johnie Turk' in their 'Club'... and are now looking to create their own... and things are looking ripe and ready to pluck in the region..
In the meantime... suck it up... if your a cruiser time your routes better so's you don't 'Get Stuck'...
Otherwise accept that your being treated no worse or better than a vistor to your country...

[goboatingnow]

Again to clear up,any confusion

A boat owned by a person who is not a EU tax resident can stay in the EU for 18 months( extendible to 24 months) and this can be reset by one day outside the EU area.

This has NOTHING to do with the crew. The crew are subject to normal immigration procedures , which is typically 90 days out of 180 in total across the Schengen area or now 90 out of 180 in turkey.

Ps DoJ despite what the Telegraph or the Mail would have you beleive the Euro zone is far from broke. ( the euro remains high against the dollar) both the UK and US deficit are greater percentage wise then Greece. The problem is you can sort it by printing money , the Germans have in effect prevented that solution in the Eurozone. So let's leave the constant harping on about " broke" this and that

Ps I notice the " euro is over " critics are a little less boisterous these days, Ireland's secondary bonds rates are down to 6-7 % and falling. portugal is stable, and spain has dodged the bullet. I predict by the end of the year with the US remaining in positive terrorists and recent results in the EU showing downturns not to be as severe as predicted, that most of this drama will be over by next year.

Back to normal programming, the journalists are packing up and moving to the US.

Dave

[David_Old_Jersey]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

Ps DoJ despite what the Telegraph or the Mail would have you beleive the Euro zone is far from broke. ( the euro remains high against the dollar) both the UK and US deficit are greater percentage wise then Greece. The problem is you can sort it by printing money , the Germans have in effect prevented that solution in the Eurozone. So let's leave the constant harping on about " broke" this and that.

Ps I notice the " euro is over " critics are a little less boisterous these days, Ireland's secondary bonds rates are down to 6-7 % and falling. portugal is stable, and spain has dodged the bullet.

I guess that it depends on how one defines being "broke".

But I agree that the answer involves printing money - but I think the Germans are right in being concerned (terrified!) about how doing that will turn out. Done badly and it will be like swallowing an overdose of Paracetomol (liver falls apart a few days later ...after you have cheered up a bit )...done very badly and it will be like playing russian roulette - with an automatic pistol .

Personally I would treat the individual countries like crack heads, give 'em enough money to either help or kill themselves with. and have a Plan to deal with the consequences - either way.

I predict by the end of the year with the US remaining in positive terrorists and recent results in the EU showing downturns not to be as severe as predicted, that most of this drama will be over by next year.

Back to normal programming, the journalists are packing up and moving to the US.

Dave

Is that a Freudian slip .

[MacG]

@ DOJ

The Med Countries presses would turn non-stop .........

[miyagimoon]

The latest details from British Consulate in Turkey:

Visa regulations for British tourists in Turkey – update 9/3/12

The Turkish Authorities revised their visa procedures on 1 February 2012. (Please find below)

The Ministry of Foreign Affairs have now provided us with a written update which states that:-

“…An amendment to the relevant legislation of the Interior Ministry has made it possible for provincial governor’s offices to issue ex officio residence permits for touristic purposes which are valid for up to six months (including six months) in line with general provisions on granting residence permits to foreigners who have arrived in our country on a visa issued by our foreign missions, an on-arrival visa or visa exemption agreements.
Foreigners who exceed the duration of their visa, visa exemption or previously issued residence permits can benefit from the above-mentioned practice on the condition that they pay the penalty for overstaying.
In this respect, while Cabinet Decree No:2011/2306, which took effect on February 1, 2012 set the duration of stay in Turkey for foreigners as 90 days in an 180-day period, foreigners who are visiting our country as tourists can legally stay in our country for a total of nine months through a six-month residence permit which they can receive from governor’s offices upon application. …”

To summarise, British nationals who have arrived in Turkey on a tourist visa and who wish to stay on for a longer period can apply for a tourist residence permit for a stay of up to 9 months. This provision already appeared in the original regulation (full text from Turkish Police website (in Turkish)) but it seems that the application procedures have now been simplified.

For further information or to make an application, you should contact your nearest Foreigners Police/Aliens Department (Yabancilar Subesi).

Consular Services Turkey
9 March 2012
http://ukinturkey.fco.gov.uk/en/help...portant-update

Notice that this mentions British tourists but guess that is normal considering it was issued by the British authorities in response to a notice from the Turkish authorities.

I suspect, and hope, that this will not require any details about accommodation as the normal Tourist Visa did not mention any thing about this. Guess we will have to wait for further details but at least they are beginning to think along the right path.

[miyagimoon]

More news on 180 day visa extensions has been published in English here

http://www.fethiyetimes.com/expat-zo...-extended.html

This morning a meeting has been announced between harbourmasters, coastguard and chamber of shipping and its members re the 'Mavi Carte' system. It is scheduled for 01/04 , where the exact implementation of the new laws and the penalties for contravention will be confirmed.