Turkey most expensive in Europe

[Polux]

Originally Posted by Lizzy Belle

Europe and the EU (European Union) are NOT the same thing.
Europe is a continent (on which you will indeed find Turkey and about 50 other countries), the EU is a 'politico-economic union of 28 member states that are located primarily in Europe'.

So yes, Turkey is in Europe, just not (yet) a member of the EU.



(Sorry, Boatman, I know that's what you meant and I know you're fully aware of this, but many people aren't.)



The Med is part of Europe - but Europe is a lot bigger then just the Med. How do you know Turkey is the most expensive country (for cruisers) in Europe when you've only been to a few countries (and a few marina's in those) in one part of Europe?

(Rhetorical question considering when this was posted, but for those who are reading this thread now.)

Hum, Turkey has only a tiny part in Europe, all countries of EU are in Europe (even if some can have some small territories out of Europe) and the Med is as much part of Europe as it is of Africa and in small measure of Asia (three continents meet there) and Turkey is certainly not the most expensive cruising ground for cruisers in Europe but one of the cheapest.

And anyway the part of Turkey were almost cruising is done is not even in Europe but in Asia

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by Lizzy Belle

Europe and the EU (European Union) are NOT the same thing.
Europe is a continent (on which you will indeed find Turkey and about 50 other countries), the EU is a 'politico-economic union of 28 member states that are located primarily in Europe'.

So yes, Turkey is in Europe, just not (yet) a member of the EU.



(Sorry, Boatman, I know that's what you meant and I know you're fully aware of this, but many people aren't.)

The Med is part of Europe - but Europe is a lot bigger then just the Med. How do you know Turkey is the most expensive country (for cruisers) in Europe when you've only been to a few countries (and a few marina's in those) in one part of Europe?

(Rhetorical question considering when this was posted, but for those who are reading this thread now.)

Sorry Lizzy.. my Geography lessons at school taught me that Europe ended at the Bosphorus... the only little bit of Turkey that is in Mainland Europe is a bit of Eastern Thrace which they took from the Greeks.. after that its Eurasia..
Most Europeans don't consider Turkey as a part of Europe which is why they will never gain the EU membership they've been after for so many years..
NATO membership is enough as far as the West is concerned.
Working on your Geographical terminology one could just as easily claim the Med as African..
As for the few countries/marina's..
Kanakale, Sea of Marmaris, Greek and Turkish isles, N Greece mainland (very little sail tourism).. W Italy down to the boot, Malta, Sicily, Sardinia, all the Ballearics, mainland Spain including Mellilia and Cueta.. S France.. so yes.. my experience of countries and marinas is somewhat limited..
Thanks for putting me in my place

[Lizzy Belle]

Originally Posted by boatman61

Most Europeans don't consider Turkey as a part of Europe which is why they will never gain the EU membership they've been after for so many years..

Hope not ... but from what I understand, it's still a possibility
But not allowed to say anything political so I'll keep my opinion to myself, haha!

As to location; only 44 out of the 50 or so counties are (completely) located in Europe. Even Cyprus, for instance, is considered an European country, and last time I checked, Cyprus was still located in Asia ...

Europe uses 3 criteria to decide if a country is European or not, and each country has to meet 2 out of those 3. Not sure if I'm translating this correctly, but the criteria are location (obviously), institutional and cultural/historical. Hence Cyprus and, as I learned just now, even Armenia.

So I guess when we say 'Europe', we could be talking about 2 very different things. Even I think it's confusing ...

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by Lizzy Belle

Hope not ... but from what I understand, it's still a possibility
But not allowed to say anything political so I'll keep my opinion to myself, haha!

As to location; only 44 out of the 50 or so counties are (completely) located in Europe. Even Cyprus, for instance, is considered an European country, and last time I checked, Cyprus was still located in Asia ...

I'd advise against saying that to a Turkish Cypriot.. and the only reason the Greeks still have half is because the Brits have bases there

[Tri]

Originally Posted by yeloya

Hi Tri, I've sent you a price today.
Back to yr question; no , we don't keep too many boats in winter in water. Easterly and southerlies which are frequent in winter can be very nasty.. Hard standing is very safe and we have enough space. We don't give 12 months contracts as we have very few berths available in water. Palarran, Barra and few others are just exceptions ..

But if you want to hang around during the week or want some issues to be fixed when our charter fleet is out, the technical service and the restaurant/bar is one of the best in the region..

Cheers

Yeloya

Hi Yeloya, thanks tor the info. I checked but have not received a message from you. Happy for you to quote a place on the hard. Thanks!

[Tri]

So far it seems that the title of the thread proves very correct. The quotes I have gotten from marinas - even the improved quotes - are way above prices on Mallorca where we currently are or the rest of the western mediterranean. Way above.

I really wonder why?

[Lizzy Belle]

Originally Posted by Tri

So far it seems that the title of the thread proves very correct.

The title is 'Turkey most expensive in Europe'.
How many European countries do you have all the rates for?

[Tri]

Norway, Sweden, Denmark, Germany, Netherlands, UK (all the way around the island including the beautiful caledonian canal), Iceland, Belgium, France (Med &Atlantic, including Corsica), Spain (Med & Atlantic, including Canary Islands), Portugal, Gibraltar, Morocco (not Europe but nearby, same for Tunisia), Italy, including Sardegna, Sicily and a lot of the smaller islands), Montenegro (where at the beginning they even offered free berth in a beautiful and brand new marina), Albania, Greece and Turkey.

No, I have not sailed Croatia yet. Sorry

[riv33]

Tri , concerning Croatia we payed between 600 to 1200 Kuna per night depending on location and time of the year.
Mooring boys were 300 kn per night and in Kornati national park 300 kn just to anchor.
Also when clearing in
Sojourn tax for 6 months 750 kn
Safety of navigation fees 439.20 kn
Light dues 349 kn
Admin fees 40 kn
The fees listed all relate to a 14 metre catamaran.
At the time the Aust. dollar was worth around 6 kn.
So we quickly learned where we could anchor for free
Despite this we will be starting our 2017 season in Croatia and heading to Turkey for 2017/18 winter
Croatia is a fantastic cruising location and should not be missed
Sorry about the thread drift but thought it would help give perspective to the discusion

[arsenelupiga]

Originally Posted by riv33

Tri , concerning Croatia we payed between 600 to 1200 Kuna per night depending on location and time of the year.
Mooring boys were 300 kn per night and in Kornati national park 300 kn just to anchor.
Also when clearing in
Sojourn tax for 6 months 750 kn
Safety of navigation fees 439.20 kn
Light dues 349 kn
Admin fees 40 kn
The fees listed all relate to a 14 metre catamaran.
At the time the Aust. dollar was worth around 6 kn.
So we quickly learned where we could anchor for free
Despite this we will be starting our 2017 season in Croatia and heading to Turkey for 2017/18 winter
Croatia is a fantastic cruising location and should not be missed
Sorry about the thread drift but thought it would help give perspective to the discusion

huh, thats not cheap !

more boats, more they can afford to charge, i guess.

tourism is main (only?) industry, so they have to make in 2 months for whole year, just like skiing in australia.

[Barra]

Originally Posted by Lizzy Belle

The title is 'Turkey most expensive in Europe'.
How many European countries do you have all the rates for?

As the OP and having just read the resurrection of this thread I think you need to read more than just the title.

To summarise from a couple of posts " turkey has had the most expensive marinas and yards we have personally seen in cruising mediterranean europe over 3 (now 4) years"

But thats a bit long for a title and not as attention grabbing

Rightly or wrongly and largely for logistical reasons europe as a sailing destination for most Ozzie/kiwi and US sailors is the med. We leave the rest of europe to land based holidays unless perhaps we have a canal worthy boat.

Also for the record I was talking only about the marina and yard costs not the rest of turkey such as restaurants, transport food shopping etc which is tremendously good value and excellent quality.

The point was that as we sailed east we expected boating costs to gradually drop with the cost of living and they did, until we reached Turkey. Then they went way up, more than the perhaps more famously expensive boating destinations like sardinia, the riviera or venice. That was surprising to us and I think would be to many other fellow cruisers, especially when compared to the other costs of living in turkey, hence the post.

An update 1 year on and we have continued to cruise turkey and greece and I can say that you can largely avoid these expensive turkish marinas - you just need to plan ahead as some are more reasonably priced. Phone or email first. You will still pay more than greece or most of italy though.

Of course anchoring is a (better) option in many places but the blue card is a fly in the ointment, requiring you to visit marinas to record pump outs (which is how we wound up at bodrum in the first place - I was much happier to anchor in front of the castle but we needed to pump out so...)

Turkey is a brilliant cruising destination and you should not miss it. Just be forewarned that not everything is great value on the boating side.

Tri asked why this is and i dont know but one thought is that boating in turkey is a rich mans sport with no as yet well established "boating middle class". Like everything in Turkey this is changing rapidly though.

Since starting this thread we have now met Yeloya from CF and Catalyst is now on the hard under his care. He is a great and knowledgable bloke and I have no hesitation in recommending him but he may not have room to fit you so check well in advance.

Marmaris is also everything the cruisers grapevine says it is with more boat shops than I could count, quality trades and services and so on. Just dont stay at the downtown marina which has a bit of an artificial disneyland feel to it and the cost that goes with that if you know what I mean.

[atoll]

with the current EU refugee dilemma we may see turkeys entry into the EU fast tracked,i won't go into the politics of why this WILL happen,but this will be great for EU members,but a real PITA for foreign yachts and those that have managed to avoid paying vat.

it could also prove to be great for northern Cyprus,isreal,lebanon,jordan and Egypt's yachting industry growth as the tax dodgers flee!

[boatman61]

[QUOTE=atoll;2066379]with the current EU refugee dilemma we may see turkeys entry into the EU fast tracked,i won't go into the politics of why this WILL happen,but this will be great for EU members,but a real PITA for foreign yachts and those that have managed to avoid paying vat.

it could also prove to be great for northern Cyprus,isreal,lebanon,jordan and Egypt's yachting industry growth as the tax dodgers flee![/QUOTE]

That will be a Loooooooooonnnngggggg time coming mate..

[atoll]

[QUOTE=boatman61;2066392]

Originally Posted by atoll

with the current EU refugee dilemma we may see turkeys entry into the EU fast tracked,i won't go into the politics of why this WILL happen,but this will be great for EU members,but a real PITA for foreign yachts and those that have managed to avoid paying vat.

it could also prove to be great for northern Cyprus,isreal,lebanon,jordan and Egypt's yachting industry growth as the tax dodgers flee![/QUOTE]

That will be a Loooooooooonnnngggggg time coming mate..

watch this space....Europe needs a new homeland for all the migrants.
turkey is the perfect donkey for the carrot and stick

[yeloya]

Some facts about the European Union and immigrants;


Contrary to what most people tend to believe (or fear..) general public opinion in Turkey is not in favour of joining Europe. Some research done 10 years ago showed 60 % of population in favour, nowadays it is well below 50 %. Europe has enough problems and unemployments, we don't want to be a part of this mess.

We currently have over 3 millions of immigrants in Turkey (only half syrian by the way..), 25 baby is borning every day in refugee camps in addition to hundreds of extra refugees who are crossing the border every day. (we have 800 km of flat border with Syria..) We spent almost 10 billions euros up to now. The money that Turkey is requesting is a portion of what was spent so far and that will not be given back to us tax payers but be spent in infrastructures, education, healt care, etc..

Isn't it a shame that while Turkey has had 3 mio immigrants entire Europe (which mostly are much richer than Turkey) is discussing more than a year to take and deal with 100.000 immigrants ?

Back to marina issue; this is simply a matter of supply/demand. If a marina can sell a berth for 100 euros a day and has no space why should they lower the prices ? I hate to hear "where is the cheapest and good marina"; there simply isn't such a thing. If a marina is cheap there should be a reason, either in nowhere, no service at all even dangereous, too much exposed to wheater, hence less demand. If one can take some risks, has no need for any service and willing to take a bus from the airport for 4-5 hours to reach for his boat, you might get some. Last year we had a guest from France who came from a very popular and CHEAP marina (I wont give the name of the marina or Country but it's in CE) who asked a bow thruster to be installed on his boat. At first sea trial they've managed to burn out the entire boat and since neither appropriate facilities nor people for fire fighting were available, they've lost the boat. On top the marina owner (supposodly a mafiosa) sued him and the french couple spent couple of weeks in jail until they've reached their lawyer in France to come and rescue them. They were not allowed to leave the country but managed to escape. That's extreme but can happen..Yes the marina was cheap, probably the bow thruster installation as well but has costed them the entire boat and plenty of troubles.

3 years ago, I've visited Greece, Sicilly, Malta, Sardegna, Balaerics, south of Spain and I've paid anything from 5 euros up to 140 euros a night for 43 ft catamaran. So, you get what you pay for..

I personally wouldn't leave my life time investment, sometimes miles away from where I am to a place or people that I am not 100% confident with to save 10% or 20% of marina fee, but that's me..


Cheers

Yeloya