Turkey, Izmir, Car Bomb, 40 ISIS Terrorists arrested

[SailingFan]

Originally Posted by yeloya

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_F...rport_shooting


It seems that carrying guns doesn't help either.. 5 people shot dead in Fort Lauderdale.
Probably, nothing to do with ISIL but does it really matter ?


Yeloya

Ok, this shows you have no idea whatsoever is going on here in the US.

First of all, the Ft. Lauderdale story is still developing, so we shall see soon enough what that situation is. So far, the fellow came in on a Canadian Air flight, and there is a great deal of controversy of his citizenship at this moment. That will of course change as time goes on and more details leak out, as they took him alive.

Second, there are dozens of place types that Americans cannot carry firearms into, to include most schools, churches, airports (in secured areas), and other public locations where populations are high (sporting venues, bars, and courtrooms/federal properties, etc.). The best way to ensure that someone gets ability to do what this guy did is to establish a "gun-free" zone where concealed carry citizens cannot carry their weapons in and defend themselves and those around them. In this case, the guy was in the baggage claim area, and hit people who were coming off inbound flights (thus unarmed because they cannot carry on planes). His gun and ammo were in his checked baggage, he retrieved the baggage, loaded his weapon, and opened fire on people gathering their bags.

Third, my money says he is ISIS inspired at the least. This is exactly the sort of attack that would be their style, aka "cowardly".

Fourth, I want to distance most of us from those in the cities who say Americans are terrified of terrorists, because out here in the country, we are actually ready and waiting for them.

City folk don't tend to have the same appreciation for firearms practice and use as those of us who live in less populated areas. I suspect the same would apply to areas across the globe where population density is lower than it is in cities where so many "enlightened" liberals just know that there is no need for an armed populace.

They then move to the country to escape the crime in the city, and complain because their new neighbors have guns the law abiding (according to the previously mentioned city's local laws) folks in the city did not. They never stop to consider that there is a reason that crime is less in the country, and it has less to do with lower population density than it has to do with presence of the likelihood of armed deterrence in every person you do see. Oddly, when in malls in liberal areas, the shooters get many victims, but in the ones where armed civilians shop, the shooters don't tend to last long.

The airport was an easy target. The disembarking passengers were unarmed, and many were not even from this area, but tourists. I heard a LOT of Spanish being spoken on the video clips in the media. Sure, it is Florida, so close to Cuban populations, but still, tourists likely made up a major percentage of those in attendance, so they were not armed. That is why so many died. Had they been armed, that guy would not have had time to empty his magazine and then reload and empty again. Twice... He went through three magazines, and NOBODY shot him. He sat down when police told him to, after all the bullets had been dispatched from his possession through the barrel of his gun.

[yeloya]

Hello Sailing fun,


Of course I have no idea on what's going on the US. As a matter of fact I didn't make any comment just shared the link. You say that the he might be inspired by ISIS and this can well be the case. That's why I said "probably".
What does concern me is that this is the third attack on the airports after Brussel and Istanbul (if I didn't miss any other..) and we sailors do fly as well. This is therefore more relevant for cruisers than the attack of Izmir which targeted the palace of Justice killing 2 people or a night club in Istanbul where many others were killed.
Thanks God, there hasn't been yet any sailor shot on the sea.


On a different matter, I am personally against the right of carrying arms. I am not leaving in the US and this is up to you. Should many people in this area in this last event were armed, the number of casuality would be much higher, IMO.
As one forumer had said, once you are dead, it doesn't matter whose bullet was it.


Cheers


Yeloya

[weavis]

Alright gentlemen.

Can we return to discussing the repercussions of the incident in Turkey for cruisers and visitors and leave the politics and thoughts on gun ownership alone... This is not the forum for that.

[Pelagic]

Originally Posted by Polux

.....That puts also in question Turkey's role with NATO. For now he is playing with both sides in what regards that even if I cannot see it as a sustainable position.

Polux, i think this is going to become a common theme in a variety of countries where the Leaders play the Superpowers off against each other

Here in the Philippines this week we have Russian Warships making a diplomatic stop in Manila while US supply ships are rafted 3 abreast in SUBIC.

Same time Chinese Aircraft Carrier is cruising close by as the pivot towards China and Russia is the new plan.

Philippine President now wants to participate in Russian/Chinese military exercises, ironically with two warships donated by the US.

My guess that this playing both sides is to deescalate tensions in a strategic country while currying FDI from the Superpowers for infrastructure Projects.

Hope it works!

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by varkpilot

Perhaps if you would take the time to research the two concepts, you might see that a democracy is basically socialistic where a republic is freedom to think for oneself. May I also suggest that you read some of Thomas Jefferson's papers. America was created to escape the European political systems, not imitate them. The same can be said of the rest of the worlld's political systems. Yes, I do indeed prefer a (true) Republic.

Funny enough.. viewed from the outside in your (true) Republic you are indeed free to think what you want.. however unlike in a Democracy the minute you open your mouth your either arrested, beaten up or killed.. as demonstrated time and again just since WW2.. the Status Quo don't appreciate 'Free Speech'.. that's why Brexit happened and why the EU will end up a broken failed attempt at a Republic.. we The People wish to retain control of our country.. something a (true) Republic appears not to have..
Also.. my understanding was N America was for religious nutters and Rich tight fisted gits who object to paying taxes.. the F**k You Jack I'm Fireproof Brigade..

[Polux]

Originally Posted by Pelagic

Polux, i think this is going to become a common theme in a variety of countries where the Leaders play the Superpowers off against each other

Here in the Philippines this week we have Russian Warships making a diplomatic stop in Manila while US supply ships are rafted 3 abreast in SUBIC.

Same time Chinese Aircraft Carrier is cruising close by as the pivot towards China and Russia is the new plan.

Philippine President now wants to participate in Russian/Chinese military exercises, ironically with two warships donated by the US.

My guess that this playing both sides is to deescalate tensions in a strategic country while currying FDI from the Superpowers for infrastructure Projects.

Hope it works!

Yes I agree. But in what regards Geo strategics probably Philippines has not the same importance as Turkey neither the same economic power. Turkey sidelined with the Islamic world will give it a major role in international politics, independently of US or Russia support, eventually a leading role.

Besides the Philippine leader has nothing in common with Erdogan. We may not like him but he is no clown, he is an intelligent man and one with a clear even if sometimes devious agenda and is supported by the Turkish population.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recep_Tayyip_Erdo%C4%9Fan

[robert sailor]

Originally Posted by boatman61

Funny enough.. viewed from the outside in your (true) Republic you are indeed free to think what you want.. however unlike in a Democracy the minute you open your mouth your either arrested, beaten up or killed.. as demonstrated time and again just since WW2.. the Status Quo don't appreciate 'Free Speech'.. that's why Brexit happened and why the EU will end up a broken failed attempt at a Republic.. we The People wish to retain control of our country.. something a (true) Republic appears not to have..
Also.. my understanding was N America was for religious nutters and Rich tight fisted gits who object to paying taxes.. the F**k You Jack I'm Fireproof Brigade..

You must have eaten a hearty breakfast Boatie, that is one of your funniest posts to date.

[Polux]

Originally Posted by varkpilot

Perhaps if you would take the time to research the two concepts, you might see that a democracy is basically socialistic where a republic is freedom to think for oneself..... Yes, I do indeed prefer a (true) Republic.

A can only say I find that funny: "a democracy is basically socialistic where a republic is freedom to think for oneself"

There are no true republics, only Republics, some are democratic others not.

Funny you prefer non democratic Republics like China or North Korea to true democracies that are not Republics like UK or Sweden...but to each is own.

I find also very curious that you think that the "freedom to think for oneself " has nothing to do with democracy, but all to do with being a Republic. I bet that some Chinese and some North Korean would disagree with you.

[robert sailor]

Originally Posted by Polux

Yes I agree. But in what regards Geo strategics probably Philippines has not the same importance as Turkey neither the same economic power. Turkey sidelined with the Islamic world will give it a major role in international politics, independently of US or Russia support, eventually a leading role.

Besides the Philippine leader has nothing in common with Erdogan. We may not like him but he is no clown, he is an intelligent man and one with a clear even if sometimes devious agenda and is supported by the Turkish population.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recep_Tayyip_Erdo%C4%9Fan

All these guys are smart or they wouldn't be where they are. Erdogan is trying very successfully through Islam to take Turkey back to the Stone Age and our friend in the Philippines is trying very successfully to remove as many drug dealers/users as he can. Few westerners agree with either of these guys but make no mistake, they are both smart people.

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by robert sailor

You must have eaten a hearty breakfast Boatie, that is one of your funniest posts to date.

Had a fizzy Magnesium Supplement earlier..

[Polux]

Originally Posted by robert sailor

All these guys are smart or they wouldn't be where they are. Erdogan is trying very successfully through Islam to take Turkey back to the Stone Age and our friend in the Philippines is trying very successfully to remove as many drug dealers/users as he can. Few westerners agree with either of these guys but make no mistake, they are both smart people.

I agree that they have to be intelligent to be where they are but while Duterte is leading a policy that will end in not being a long time in power, Erdogan is leading one that will probably will make him a Turkish symbolic figure, the one that lead the country to some form of moderated Islamic government.

Not that I like what he is doing or aprove but that is irrelevant. What is relevant is what the majority of Turks think about it and regarding that I bet that on the next elections, maybe the last, his popularity as well as his power will increase exponentially, due to public support.

Regarding leading turkey to the stone age I assume you mean different from what we westerners consider that is appropriated for us? but don't you think that are the Turks that should decide what is appropriated for them? and that will be stone age? not for them surely, they will consider the new ways as a positive evolution, otherwise would not have supported it.

[robert sailor]

Originally Posted by SailingFan

Ok, this shows you have no idea whatsoever is going on here in the US.

First of all, the Ft. Lauderdale story is still developing, so we shall see soon enough what that situation is. So far, the fellow came in on a Canadian Air flight, and there is a great deal of controversy of his citizenship at this moment. That will of course change as time goes on and more details leak out, as they took him alive.

Second, there are dozens of place types that Americans cannot carry firearms into, to include most schools, churches, airports (in secured areas), and other public locations where populations are high (sporting venues, bars, and courtrooms/federal properties, etc.). The best way to ensure that someone gets ability to do what this guy did is to establish a "gun-free" zone where concealed carry citizens cannot carry their weapons in and defend themselves and those around them. In this case, the guy was in the baggage claim area, and hit people who were coming off inbound flights (thus unarmed because they cannot carry on planes). His gun and ammo were in his checked baggage, he retrieved the baggage, loaded his weapon, and opened fire on people gathering their bags.

Third, my money says he is ISIS inspired at the least. This is exactly the sort of attack that would be their style, aka "cowardly".

Fourth, I want to distance most of us from those in the cities who say Americans are terrified of terrorists, because out here in the country, we are actually ready and waiting for them.

City folk don't tend to have the same appreciation for firearms practice and use as those of us who live in less populated areas. I suspect the same would apply to areas across the globe where population density is lower than it is in cities where so many "enlightened" liberals just know that there is no need for an armed populace.

They then move to the country to escape the crime in the city, and complain because their new neighbors have guns the law abiding (according to the previously mentioned city's local laws) folks in the city did not. They never stop to consider that there is a reason that crime is less in the country, and it has less to do with lower population density than it has to do with presence of the likelihood of armed deterrence in every person you do see. Oddly, when in malls in liberal areas, the shooters get many victims, but in the ones where armed civilians shop, the shooters don't tend to last long.

The airport was an easy target. The disembarking passengers were unarmed, and many were not even from this area, but tourists. I heard a LOT of Spanish being spoken on the video clips in the media. Sure, it is Florida, so close to Cuban populations, but still, tourists likely made up a major percentage of those in attendance, so they were not armed. That is why so many died. Had they been armed, that guy would not have had time to empty his magazine and then reload and empty again. Twice... He went through three magazines, and NOBODY shot him. He sat down when police told him to, after all the bullets had been dispatched from his possession through the barrel of his gun.

He did not come in on a Canadian flight. He came from Alaska on a connecting flight to the US mainland. If he was on a Canadian flight he would never have been allowed to have a hand gun in checked baggage, that's only allowed in the USA. He was born in the USA and was an army vet with mental problems.
Forget the gun thread and the concept that more guns solve problems. It's possible that he was a terrorist but from what I read he was a very disturbed young man with mental problems and so far I've not read anything to suggest another motive. He is a Latino not an Arab so forget that angle.

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by SailingFan

Ok, this shows you have no idea whatsoever is going on here in the US.

First of all, the Ft. Lauderdale story is still developing, so we shall see soon enough what that situation is. So far, the fellow came in on a Canadian Air flight, and there is a great deal of controversy of his citizenship at this moment. That will of course change as time goes on and more details leak out, as they took him alive.

Second, there are dozens of place types that Americans cannot carry firearms into, to include most schools, churches, airports (in secured areas), and other public locations where populations are high (sporting venues, bars, and courtrooms/federal properties, etc.). The best way to ensure that someone gets ability to do what this guy did is to establish a "gun-free" zone where concealed carry citizens cannot carry their weapons in and defend themselves and those around them. In this case, the guy was in the baggage claim area, and hit people who were coming off inbound flights (thus unarmed because they cannot carry on planes). His gun and ammo were in his checked baggage, he retrieved the baggage, loaded his weapon, and opened fire on people gathering their bags.

Third, my money says he is ISIS inspired at the least. This is exactly the sort of attack that would be their style, aka "cowardly".

Fourth, I want to distance most of us from those in the cities who say Americans are terrified of terrorists, because out here in the country, we are actually ready and waiting for them.

City folk don't tend to have the same appreciation for firearms practice and use as those of us who live in less populated areas. I suspect the same would apply to areas across the globe where population density is lower than it is in cities where so many "enlightened" liberals just know that there is no need for an armed populace.

They then move to the country to escape the crime in the city, and complain because their new neighbors have guns the law abiding (according to the previously mentioned city's local laws) folks in the city did not. They never stop to consider that there is a reason that crime is less in the country, and it has less to do with lower population density than it has to do with presence of the likelihood of armed deterrence in every person you do see. Oddly, when in malls in liberal areas, the shooters get many victims, but in the ones where armed civilians shop, the shooters don't tend to last long.

The airport was an easy target. The disembarking passengers were unarmed, and many were not even from this area, but tourists. I heard a LOT of Spanish being spoken on the video clips in the media. Sure, it is Florida, so close to Cuban populations, but still, tourists likely made up a major percentage of those in attendance, so they were not armed. That is why so many died. Had they been armed, that guy would not have had time to empty his magazine and then reload and empty again. Twice... He went through three magazines, and NOBODY shot him. He sat down when police told him to, after all the bullets had been dispatched from his possession through the barrel of his gun.

Seems you were wrong on all counts.. he was just a nutter coming down from Alaska.. and he was known as such yet still allowed to transport a weapon.
No ISIS link.. apart from 'The Voices in his Head'
National Incompetence.. but you could switch the blame to Russia I guess..

[weavis]

Last call for getting back on track.

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by weavis

Last call for getting back on track.

Sorry Weavis.. just find a lot of this hysteria amusing..
Islam is going through a Reformation much as Christianity did centuries ago..
why the delay..?? its a newer religion and the bulk are mainly uneducated and illiterate much the same as Europe's population was back then and all information came from the priests who had their own agenda's and power base's to maintain.. today its the Mullahs combined with Western educated ambitious Muslims..
ISIS is basically todays Inquisition.. just look at what Luther started and the wars and terror as a result.. sooner or later common humanity will prevail and a balance will be restored.