Cruisers Forum
 


Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 06-01-2017, 07:58   #61
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2015
Boat: Amel 54
Posts: 238
Re: Turkey, Izmir, Car Bomb, 40 ISIS Terrorists arrested

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sandibar View Post
I'd like to see a reference to the paper making that claim. It takes more than one carved piece of ceramic to overthrow consensus on the history of man, even if the excavations are conducted by real archaelogists (and they are).
History, like science, doesn't deal in consensus. They deal with evidence, at least they should be.

Thus far they have identified around a 800 different letters. It's not the first time they have made discoveries in this region either. As I said, history will be rewritten. As for opposition to these discoveries that is to be expected. There's lots of politics, egos and prestige involved, especially among those who - for various reasons - wish to maintain the status quo.

People in general don't like major changes that questions and challenges what they thought they knew and what they thought to be true, either. They often get upset and combative and sometimes right out aggressive.
Van Der Beek is offline  
Old 06-01-2017, 08:21   #62
Registered User
 
krisb007's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Everett, WA
Boat: 2019 TBD
Posts: 60
Re: Turkey, Izmir, Car Bomb, 40 ISIS Terrorists arrested

Quote:
Originally Posted by Elie View Post
Most American for exemple, are armed and ready to 'defend' against their neibors(for some states, it is a mandatory to be armed!),

Not true. No state in America mandates that all is citizens be armed. A couple of crazy little small towns do. But they does not enforce it. They did it to make the news.
__________________
"To reach a port we must set sail- Sail, not tie at anchor. Sail, not drift." FDR
krisb007 is offline  
Old 06-01-2017, 08:23   #63
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 5,981
Re: Turkey, Izmir, Car Bomb, 40 ISIS Terrorists arrested

Quote:
Originally Posted by chuckr View Post
Mark - not sure where you got your information but is WRONG -- we are in Kusadasi and knew about it shortly after it happened.

Are we worried - well I did go out on New Years eve and did a bit more of situational awareness than I normally do. And we do keep the boat ready to go but that is normal.
And yes we do now have a bit more heightened awareness but only a bit more than last year when we stayed here.
We may stay in Turkey next winter as well but probably not in Kusadasi as they made a bunch of changes and lost the local big chandlery, some of the guys who do boat repair have no work and left the yard or are thinking about it, workers who worked on our boat last year are gone as there is no work in the yard, - Kusadasi is turning into a marina for local boats only -
but we love the location as it is right downtown and a great little/big town.

as for next year - we will judge where we will winter over based on the amount of anti American feeling in Turkey as it seems to be building from some of the posts I have seen and that is not unusual as I saw it here when I was stationed here 50 years ago while in the military.

We love Turkey and the Turkish people and the folks along the Black Sea last year were the best and very accepting of us. But ---
Chuck,
We really enjoyed Kusadasi for the same reasons as you do. They were increasing marina rates as well as electrical rates the year we left and they lost quite a few cruisers but it sounds like it's much worse now. The yard workers were quite busy when we were there and we found them to be highly skilled and reasonable in prices. It's sounding like those days are over. How are the rates, have they reduced them at all? We still keep in loose touch with friends we made in Kusadasi but they have chosen to winter in Greece as they say their costs are close to half as much. It does look after the Shenigen (sp) issues. Sad to read your update. R
robert sailor is offline  
Old 06-01-2017, 08:35   #64
Moderator
 
Dockhead's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Denmark (Winter), Helsinki (Summer); Cruising the Baltic Sea this year!
Boat: Cutter-Rigged Moody 54
Posts: 31,076
Re: Turkey, Izmir, Car Bomb, 40 ISIS Terrorists arrested

Quote:
Originally Posted by yeloya View Post
Well done Mark, you didn't miss the opportunity as a catastrophe reporter.

But you missed (I am sure not intentionally..) the tragedies in Nice and recently and Berlin, killing respectively around 90 and 11 people.

What these idiots are trying to do is exactly what you are doing; scaring & terrorising people, so pls give up, at least on this forum supposed to be a "cruising" forum.

If you want to be 100% safe, you stay at home; there is no safe place on earth. The poor people in Berlin were not cruisiers or tourists, just poor people trying to buy something for their beloved in Christmas.
If someone considers Turkey more risky than anywhere else, he/she may chose to not to come. Unfortunately, this is actually what these terrorists are trying to achieve.

Cheers

Yeloya
No need to be so sensitive

People didn't stop coming to London or Paris, or even New York, after terrorist attacks there.

Nor is anyone going to stop coming to Turkey now.

People just want to know what's going on.

We're all in this together.

Sent from my D6633 using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app
__________________
"Parce que je suis heureux en mer, et peut-être pour sauver mon ame. . . "
Dockhead is offline  
Old 06-01-2017, 08:37   #65
Registered User
 
Polux's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Portugal/Med
Boat: Comet 41s
Posts: 6,140
Re: Turkey, Izmir, Car Bomb, 40 ISIS Terrorists arrested

Quote:
Originally Posted by Van Der Beek View Post
@ Polux and MarkJ

Archaeological evidence have recently discovered that the written language started in Europe, Bulgaria, 7000 years ago...(that is to say 2000 years OLDER than those of Mesopotamia and those of Egyptian hieroglyphs)...not the Middle East. History will therefore have to be rewritten, and it will be.

You need to bring yourselves up to speed, we are making new discovers all the time it's not static. Not too long ago it was believed that Columbus was first with discovering the Americas. We have since learned that that was not the case.

This one is kind of interesting as well.
DNA links Native Americans with Europeans | ScienceNordic
A good way to know were a high level of culture first developed is to know were the first cities were raised. A city only can happen if that culture is not only sedentary one, but if the levels of surplus in agriculture allows for a great part of the population not to be being occupied with survival agriculture but with administrative tasks, commerce and fabrication of tolls, jewelry and all other kind of products made for comercial trading, not mentioning services.

The oldest cities were all on the middle east and they date from 6 to 7000 years ago: Eridu, Uruk on Sumeria. Other very old ones are Byblos, Jericho, Damascus, Aleppo, Jerusalem, all in the middle east.

Writing appeared on cities due to the need of record connected with administrative tasks.

What are the big ancient cities in Bulgaria are you talking about that lead to the discovery of writing? The oldest I know is Plovdiv, one of the oldest cities in Europe because it was relatively near middle east and their trade routes, but several middle east cities are several thousand of years older.

Here you have different lists by several Historians. They have in common all the oldest cities to be on the middle east:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...ughout_history
The Ancient City - Ancient History Encyclopedia
Polux is offline  
Old 06-01-2017, 09:01   #66
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2015
Boat: Amel 54
Posts: 238
Re: Turkey, Izmir, Car Bomb, 40 ISIS Terrorists arrested

Quote:
Originally Posted by Polux View Post
What are the big ancient cities in Bulgaria are you talking about that lead to the discovery of writing?
I don't believe I mentioned any big cities and I don't believe you discover writing either, I believe that's something you come up with as means of communication. Those who come after may discover it thou, as in this case.

Quote.
Archaeological evidence have recently discovered that the written language started in Europe, Bulgaria, 7000 years ago...(that is to say 2000 years OLDER than those of Mesopotamia and those of Egyptian hieroglyphs)...not the Middle East. History will therefore have to be rewritten, and it will be.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Polux View Post
The oldest cities were all on the middle east and they date from 6 to 7000 years ago.
That's interesting, apparently you don't need big cities to create a written language since this predates previous written languages with ~2000 years, without any known cities in the region.

The evidence are what the evidence are, as for opposition to these discoveries that is to be expected. There's lots of politics, egos and prestige involved, especially among those who - for various reasons - wish to maintain the status quo.


Edit.
Your argument isn't really with me in the first place.
Van Der Beek is offline  
Old 06-01-2017, 09:15   #67
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2007
Boat: GibSea 472
Posts: 482
Re: Turkey, Izmir, Car Bomb, 40 ISIS Terrorists arrested

Quote:
Originally Posted by krisb007 View Post
Not true. No state in America mandates that all is citizens be armed. A couple of crazy little small towns do. But they does not enforce it. They did it to make the news.
Yah, but the 'stand your ground' law implemented first in Florida, but now in force in 20 states.
Here is an extract of such law:
'Over 20 states have instituted stand your ground laws since Florida introduced its law in 2005.

Here is Florida's stand your ground law, as it deals with justifiable homicide:

"A person who is not engaged in an unlawful activity and who is attacked in any other place where he or she has a right to be has no duty to retreat and has the right to stand his or her ground and meet force with force, including deadly force if he or she reasonably believes it is necessary to do so to prevent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the commission of a forcible felony."
You are right to say that it is not mandatory to use armed defense, but in fact, not defending your castle is a liability in cas of intrusion.
Elie is offline  
Old 06-01-2017, 09:34   #68
Registered User

Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 313
Re: Turkey, Izmir, Car Bomb, 40 ISIS Terrorists arrested

Quote:
Originally Posted by boatman61 View Post
That's the West for you.. outrage about human rights abuses and killing thousands of citizens so in they go and kill hundreds of thousands.. destroy all infrastructure then wonder why they're hated..
Islam and democracy don't mix..
Agree totally! BUT, I think you may have missed one point.

After we bomb the c$%@ out of them, kill and, destroy their infrastructure, we loan or in most cases, outright give them the money to re-build better than their infrastructure was in the first place.

Vestiges from George C. Marshall
crabcake is offline  
Old 06-01-2017, 09:42   #69
Registered User
 
Sandibar's Avatar

Join Date: May 2014
Location: Finland
Boat: Sandibar 35
Posts: 283
Re: Turkey, Izmir, Car Bomb, 40 ISIS Terrorists arrested

Quote:
Originally Posted by Van Der Beek View Post
History, like science, doesn't deal in consensus. They deal with evidence, at least they should be.

Thus far they have identified around a 800 different letters. It's not the first time they have made discoveries in this region either. As I said, history will be rewritten. As for opposition to these discoveries that is to be expected. There's lots of politics, egos and prestige involved, especially among those who - for various reasons - wish to maintain the status quo.

People in general don't like major changes that questions and challenges what they thought they knew and what they thought to be true, either. They often get upset and combative and sometimes right out aggressive.

Well, history as a science is a social process. If there is evidence of this culture, then the way to argue for the meaning of the archaeological finds is publications in relevant journals. Which I didn't find with a casual search. Some popular websites, that cite the researchers exist, but carry no weight. I'm not saying it's not relevant, but until it's reviewed, verified and approved by the archaeological community it's not a historical fact.
Sandibar is offline  
Old 06-01-2017, 09:59   #70
Registered User

Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 313
Re: Turkey, Izmir, Car Bomb, 40 ISIS Terrorists arrested

Quote:
Originally Posted by Elie View Post
Yah, but the 'stand your ground' law implemented first in Florida, but now in force in 20 states.
Here is an extract of such law:
'Over 20 states have instituted stand your ground laws since Florida introduced its law in 2005.

Here is Florida's stand your ground law, as it deals with justifiable homicide:

"A person who is not engaged in an unlawful activity and who is attacked in any other place where he or she has a right to be has no duty to retreat and has the right to stand his or her ground and meet force with force, including deadly force if he or she reasonably believes it is necessary to do so to prevent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the commission of a forcible felony."
You are right to say that it is not mandatory to use armed defense, but in fact, not defending your castle is a liability in cas of intrusion.
Respectfully disagree as to your position on "Liability."

The law as written says "right" - not duty. If duty would have been substituted for right when the law was written, there would be a liability. No duty = no liability
crabcake is offline  
Old 06-01-2017, 10:05   #71
Registered User
 
Polux's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Portugal/Med
Boat: Comet 41s
Posts: 6,140
Re: Turkey, Izmir, Car Bomb, 40 ISIS Terrorists arrested

Quote:
Originally Posted by Van Der Beek View Post
I don't believe I mentioned any big cities and I don't believe you discover writing either, I believe that's something you come up with as means of communication. Those who come after may discover it thou, as in this case.

Quote.
Archaeological evidence have recently discovered that the written language started in Europe, Bulgaria, 7000 years ago...(that is to say 2000 years OLDER than those of Mesopotamia and those of Egyptian hieroglyphs)...not the Middle East. History will therefore have to be rewritten, and it will be.
...
Because someone was wrote it it makes it not credible. Lots of Bull in internet. The credibility depends on the source and you have not mentioned it. Please do so, otherwise that does not mean anything.

Here you have a good article on the history of writing. No mention to what you are talking about.
http://www.historian.net/hxwrite.htm
Polux is offline  
Old 06-01-2017, 10:10   #72
mrm
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Poland, EU
Boat: crew on Bavaria 38 Cruiser
Posts: 654
Re: Turkey, Izmir, Car Bomb, 40 ISIS Terrorists arrested

Quote:
Originally Posted by SV DestinyAscen View Post
[...]Most of the ISIS cash flow came through Turkey for the initial two years.

We always reap what we sow. The EU did in Libya and Syria, Ukraine.
So, is it a poor understanding on my part, or do you really seriously imply, that the EU recently invaded Ukraine? Or do you refer to other historical events?

With 'we reap what we sow' I do agree...

BTW, MarkJ, thanks for posting current info.
mrm is offline  
Old 06-01-2017, 10:19   #73
Marine Service Provider

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Marmaris
Boat: FP Orana 2010, Hélia 2013, Catana C 47 2013, Nautitech 46 Fly 2018
Posts: 1,295
Re: Turkey, Izmir, Car Bomb, 40 ISIS Terrorists arrested

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dockhead View Post
No need to be so sensitive

People didn't stop coming to London or Paris, or even New York, after terrorist attacks there.

Nor is anyone going to stop coming to Turkey now.

People just want to know what's going on.

We're all in this together.

Sent from my D6633 using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app
I didn't go to London for quite a while, but I've been last year on Eve's day with my wife in Rome, it was deserted..I stayed in 5 stars hotel next to Vatican at 90 € per room. Normally you don't find any room unless you book well early and if you get one, the rates are minimum in the order of 200-300 € range.
I was on the Paris boat show in December 2016, the show was significantly reduced in size and the participant and visitor numbers were 30% less than last year. Brussels's mayor has said that they've lost 35 % of their tourism after the airport disaster. So, everyone is losing, a bit more or less..

In Germany which is one of the biggest market the outbond tourism has shrunk by 35% in overall and probably this will further increase after Berlin tragedy. France a bit less but they too gave up travelling abroad. In short, this is not only the problem of Turkey, sure this latter has lost more than any other country.
Spain and to some extend Portugal has had a good year but Croatia and Greece are also suffering, but certainly to a lesser degree..

That's what the terrorism is trying to achieve and to me so far they've been very succesful. Turkey is the 16th biggest economy in the world and tourism makes less than 10 % of total country's GNP. It wouldn't kill us but would certainly harm us. And as you said, there will still be people coming..

Cheers

Yeloya
yeloya is offline  
Old 07-01-2017, 00:24   #74
Marine Service Provider

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Marmaris
Boat: FP Orana 2010, Hélia 2013, Catana C 47 2013, Nautitech 46 Fly 2018
Posts: 1,295
Re: Turkey, Izmir, Car Bomb, 40 ISIS Terrorists arrested

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_F...rport_shooting


It seems that carrying guns doesn't help either.. 5 people shot dead in Fort Lauderdale.
Probably, nothing to do with ISIL but does it really matter ?


Yeloya
yeloya is offline  
Old 07-01-2017, 01:23   #75
Registered User
 
varkpilot's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Houston, Texas
Boat: Chris Craft 47 Commander
Posts: 110
Re: Turkey, Izmir, Car Bomb, 40 ISIS Terrorists arrested

Quote:
Originally Posted by Polux View Post
Fact is that for many thousands of years the middle east was a bright beacon in what regards civilization. Our civilization born there. Not so many centuries ago they were still one of the brightest lights on human culture, when there was no cars and airplanes and the trade routes passed all there: Camels and ships. This was the main trading routes till the Portuguese discovered the sea way to the east:

Some Americans have a funny way regarding considering the US to be a Republic as it was something out of the ordinary. Plenty Republics around, some are democratic others not. Regarding the western culture it is far more important to be a democracy than a Republic.

For instance China and North Korea are republics but not democratic Republics. Russian federation is a state constituted by 85 constituent units. 22 of them are Republics

United kingdom, Spain, Belgium, Netherlands, norway, Sweden and Denmark are democratic monarchies.

Do you think than to be a Republic is more important than to be a Democracy?
Perhaps if you would take the time to research the two concepts, you might see that a democracy is basically socialistic where a republic is freedom to think for oneself. May I also suggest that you read some of Thomas Jefferson's papers. America was created to escape the European political systems, not imitate them. The same can be said of the rest of the worlld's political systems. Yes, I do indeed prefer a (true) Republic.
varkpilot is offline  
Closed Thread

Tags
Turkey

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
9 Americans arrested in Saudi Arabia accused of cobtact with terrorists Goosebumps Liveaboard's Forum 57 03-02-2016 15:59
Tunisia goes ISIS. MarkJ Europe & Mediterranean 18 02-10-2014 17:24
Logistics of sailing to Izmir Airport, Turkey? LifePart2 Europe & Mediterranean 3 20-07-2013 01:01

Advertise Here


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 03:26.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.