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Old 23-02-2017, 12:56   #16
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Re: Turkey is looking at new rules -

Years ago, the same sort of tax disparity used to occur between the US States of Oregon and Washington. During election years, it was always a good political move (in Washington) to find out if your opponent owned a boat or RV registered in Oregon! The State Police spent a lot of time checking ownership and residency. Eventually they equalized the taxes somewhat and removed the incentive to cheat. But not until after I'd paid the tax!
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Old 23-02-2017, 13:50   #17
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Re: Turkey is looking at new rules -

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Originally Posted by Saleen411 View Post
I've not heard of any safety issues from the few friends I have that live in Turkey, and am actually surprised at what the cruise ship companies are doing.

I still plan on going soon.
That's surprises me as well. In recent years Turkey was deemed "risky" to visit. And yet there hasn't been any single crime of any kind against any cruiser or cruising ship passenger in Turkey...

Noonsite reports that in the Caribbean just in 2016, 90 crimes of which 18 are classified as violent (serious injuries including gunshot wounds, sexual assault, rape and death) occured. And I assume that there are still many sailor and cruise ships in this part of the world..

Yes, it's true that Turkey has lost lot of cruise ships and foreign sailors but the good news is that many marinas have cut the prices, anchorages are quiter..

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Old 24-02-2017, 07:59   #18
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Re: Turkey is looking at new rules -

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Originally Posted by Saleen411 View Post
Thanks for the reply....I'm glad to receive your input. I apologize for the bit of thread drift, but this news just came out today.

I've not heard of any safety issues from the few friends I have that live in Turkey, and am actually surprised at what the cruise ship companies are doing.

I still plan on going soon.
I can think of few things that pushed the cruise ships to leave the market:
- If a company's parent country designates Turkey as dangerous, they may have trouble getting insurance (or it will be very expensive).
- If customers are scared, people may not be signing up for those cruises. No customers...legality, insurance, safety, etc. are irrelevant.
- There actually have been terrorist attacks. A cruise ship or their passengers get caught up in one and it will really hurt the cruise company even for ships no where near Turkey.
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Old 25-02-2017, 14:51   #19
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Re: Turkey is looking at new rules -

I had looked at a few cats in Turkey that seemed reasonably priced and I wondered if it was due to political reasons, ie. unstable/unrest.

Now with this law I wonder if Turkish boats will become VERY attractively priced? I'm not that familiar with those price point interactions, can anybody shed light or take an informed guess and offer their prediction on what may happen to Turkish boat prices?
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Old 25-02-2017, 19:25   #20
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Re: Turkey is looking at new rules -

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Originally Posted by SV Bacchus View Post
I had looked at a few cats in Turkey that seemed reasonably priced and I wondered if it was due to political reasons, ie. unstable/unrest.

Now with this law I wonder if Turkish boats will become VERY attractively priced? I'm not that familiar with those price point interactions, can anybody shed light or take an informed guess and offer their prediction on what may happen to Turkish boat prices?
Interesting idea. I wonder if it could get attractive enough to buy a boat there, sail it in the Med for a bit, cross to the Carib., then take it to the USA East coast to sel at a higher price? Likely too good to be true.
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Old 25-02-2017, 20:49   #21
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Re: Turkey is looking at new rules -

Quote:
Originally Posted by SV Bacchus View Post
I had looked at a few cats in Turkey that seemed reasonably priced and I wondered if it was due to political reasons, ie. unstable/unrest.

Now with this law I wonder if Turkish boats will become VERY attractively priced? I'm not that familiar with those price point interactions, can anybody shed light or take an informed guess and offer their prediction on what may happen to Turkish boat prices?

I'm 4 hours returned from Ankara with no sleep in two days so forgive my fog. The country is on edge awaiting the April vote on dictatorship. Lira exchange rates are plummeting.

That said I expect no long term change in coastal hospitality. If u want to buy in turkey and bug out give it a month.
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Old 26-02-2017, 01:01   #22
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Re: Turkey is looking at new rules -

Quote:
Originally Posted by SV Bacchus View Post
I had looked at a few cats in Turkey that seemed reasonably priced and I wondered if it was due to political reasons, ie. unstable/unrest.

Now with this law I wonder if Turkish boats will become VERY attractively priced? I'm not that familiar with those price point interactions, can anybody shed light or take an informed guess and offer their prediction on what may happen to Turkish boat prices?
I was in the market for a second hand boat and we are also acting (on a smalll scale) as a broker as well. First of all, regardless of what is happening in Turkey, I see that the cats are moving better and keeping their value better in second hand. This may be due to the fact that most factories are running out of stock; you need to wait one up to 2 years for getting a a new Lagoon 42, FP 47 or Nautitech Bavaria. Secondly, there is a more demand for cats. (market trend..) We sold 4 cats in the past 6 months but not any mono yet.
Specifically for Turkey, many charter companies have either stop their activities or are moving their boat elsewhere. Many boats operating in charter with european flag were VAT unpaid (Turkey is out of EC) and they cannot be used anywhere in Europe unless the VAT is paid. Therefore, if you can find this kind of boat , you can get a very attractive prices.
The referendum which is due in mid April can have an impact but only for the ones owned by turks. In case it's rejected (polls are saying the chances are 50/50) , the price could go up, if it's approved , then turks may try to get rid of their boats. Foreigners in Turkey can leave and go wherever they want anyway, why they should sell their boats and at reduced price ? My guess is that the referendum will have major effect on megayachts rather than sailing boats, the big guys are always more sensitive to political or economical unrest.. .

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Old 26-02-2017, 03:28   #23
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Re: Turkey is looking at new rules -

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Originally Posted by yeloya View Post
That's surprises me as well. In recent years Turkey was deemed "risky" to visit. And yet there hasn't been any single crime of any kind against any cruiser or cruising ship passenger in Turkey...

Yeloya
Yeah right, tell that to a guy flying into Istanbul to charter a boat and witnessing the massacre at the airport. Not to mention the instability and repercussions of the attempted coup, etc. The cruise lines and large charter companies have to look at these things from larger perspective so while at some far away village with a mooring fleet things may be quiet the insurance companies and ticket sellers have to think countrywide. Not to mention the fact that Greece with it's cheap post-recession prices most likely picked up all those Turkish cancellations.
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Old 26-02-2017, 09:36   #24
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Re: Turkey is looking at new rules -

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Originally Posted by hpeer View Post
Interesting idea. I wonder if it could get attractive enough to buy a boat there, sail it in the Med for a bit, cross to the Carib., then take it to the USA East coast to sel at a higher price? Likely too good to be true.
My thoughts exactly except for the part about selling at a higher price back home in the USA. I would be looking for an attractive price on a nice yacht that would house my family and I for years to come. We want to leave the states and not come back for a bit (no, not for political reasons, we just want to cruise).
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Old 26-02-2017, 09:41   #25
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Re: Turkey is looking at new rules -

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Originally Posted by Tetepare View Post
The country is on edge awaiting the April vote on dictatorship. Lira exchange rates are plummeting.

Yes, wait until mid-March and try to buy something with a favorable exchange rate from a nervous Turk! I sincerely hope that is a PC term, don't want to oftend any Turkish folks on the thread.

That said I expect no long term change in coastal hospitality. If u want to buy in turkey and bug out give it a month.
That would also be my hope, they would both want and need foreign dollars flowing into the country.
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Old 26-02-2017, 09:46   #26
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Re: Turkey is looking at new rules -

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Originally Posted by yeloya View Post
Many boats operating in charter with european flag were VAT unpaid (Turkey is out of EC) and they cannot be used anywhere in Europe unless the VAT is paid. Therefore, if you can find this kind of boat , you can get a very attractive prices.
The referendum which is due in mid April can have an impact but only for the ones owned by turks. In case it's rejected (polls are saying the chances are 50/50) , the price could go up, if it's approved , then turks may try to get rid of their boats.

Yeloya
Your insight is appreciated, thanks!

Quick question on VAT (I know, I know, it has been beaten to death but wondering about this specific situation):

If a boat is bought and you are "passing through" on your way to the Carib, will they still require VAT to be paid? Meaning you have no intent to stop but some situation ends up demanding you get fuel or supplies or..
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Old 26-02-2017, 11:51   #27
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Re: Turkey is looking at new rules -

Quote:
Originally Posted by SV Bacchus View Post
Your insight is appreciated, thanks!

Quick question on VAT (I know, I know, it has been beaten to death but wondering about this specific situation):

If a boat is bought and you are "passing through" on your way to the Carib, will they still require VAT to be paid? Meaning you have no intent to stop but some situation ends up demanding you get fuel or supplies or..
unfortunately I am not an expert on VAT issues but there are many in the forum, I hope they can contribute.
Normally you shouldn't have any problem in taking the boat via the Med as long as you don't exceed a certain period of time. (18 months ?? or was it 90 days ?)
I have another question for VAt experts: if say a french guy buys a brand new boat (second hand boat cannot be imported in Turkey) , pay 1% VAT and fly turkish flag. (Any foreigner who has the residence permit in Turkey can do that and it's quite easy to get a residence permit) Then if he takes the boat and deflags from Turkish one and apply for a french flag. Officially the boat is VAT paid but the VAT in France is 23%. Would the authorities accept that the boat as VAT paid or would they claim the difference of VAT, hence, 23-1=22% ?

Well, I said french but could be german or american if this does matter..

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Old 26-02-2017, 21:35   #28
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Re: Turkey is looking at new rules -

Good question Yeloya!
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Old 26-02-2017, 23:45   #29
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Re: Turkey is looking at new rules -

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I have another question for VAt experts: if say a french guy buys a brand new boat (second hand boat cannot be imported in Turkey) , pay 1% VAT and fly turkish flag. (Any foreigner who has the residence permit in Turkey can do that and it's quite easy to get a residence permit) Then if he takes the boat and deflags from Turkish one and apply for a french flag. Officially the boat is VAT paid but the VAT in France is 23%. Would the authorities accept that the boat as VAT paid or would they claim the difference of VAT, hence, 23-1=22% ?

Well, I said french but could be german or american if this does matter..

Cheers

Yeloya
My understanding is VAT paid in other EU countries counts. VAT paid in non-EU countries doesn't count. I don't believe Turkey counts as part of the EU customs area, so I don't think you would get any relief when importing into the EU. (might be the European Customs Area or some such not technically the EU).

If this was the case, everyone would buy their boats in turkey, pay 1% and use the 22% VAT savings to ship the boat home while pocketing most of it. (This is why the EU pushed VAT normalization schemes because some countries were benefiting as import ports by having low VAT rates and then most of the goods just got shipped on to other countries while the import country keeps all the VAT money.)
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Old 27-02-2017, 03:35   #30
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Re: Turkey is looking at new rules -

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Yeah right, tell that to a guy flying into Istanbul to charter a boat and witnessing the massacre at the airport. Not to mention the instability and repercussions of the attempted coup, etc. The cruise lines and large charter companies have to look at these things from larger perspective so while at some far away village with a mooring fleet things may be quiet the insurance companies and ticket sellers have to think countrywide. Not to mention the fact that Greece with it's cheap post-recession prices most likely picked up all those Turkish cancellations.
Have no idea what you are talking about except reading old news papers or where you live or sail as nothing in your profile.
Yea the cruise ships did pull out for perhaps a variety of reasons and security was probably one issue. But have you ever heard of an attack on a cruiser? We have not. And we are living in Turkey sailed north to Istanbul last summer and across the entire coast of Northern Turkey and what great friendly people.
And if it was an insurance question why would our insurance not take that into account as they have in the past when we sailed to Cartagena Colombia or when we sailed east of Georgia they would not insure us for theft or piracy. We actually feel safer this year than we did last and we felt safe last year and did a bit of traveling around Turkey even spend Christmas in Istanbul where we attended Christmas Eve midnight services in a Christian church.
In actually we feel safer here than when we were in Miami a while ago when one of the folks got robbed walking from the marina to a bar a couple of blocks away -
As for Greece - they did figure it out and cut marina costs and it is an inexpensive place to cruise but the only time in the Med we have had a worry was on a couple of Greek Islands when the migrants saw our USA flag and at one point began to gather on the dock at the back of our boat until the police saw it and ran them off. That would not happen in Turkey -
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