Turkey, Greece or Croatia ?

[donradcliffe]

Turkey, Croatia--I like them both, but they both have their good sides and their not-so-good sides. Croatia has great Italian food, but when I asked for and got the local dishes, they were stews that weren't nearly as good as the Czechs or Germans make. Turkish food is generally healthier--with some of the best vegetables in the world.

Croatia has great walled cities to wander in, but they make you pay to anchor is some places--if that's the first world, then give the the third world anytime. OTOH, the free anchorage in Bodrum has at least 3 discos which turn their loudspeakers towards the sea, and go until daybreak. The Bora will flip your dinghy, but so will a good Meltimi. Both areas are pretty crowded with charter boats, but Turkey has the Gulets, which will lay 400 feet of anchor chain across yours.

The season is a bit longer in Turkey, and don't even THINK about staying aboard during a Croatian winter.

Both countries have their petty officials and rules. Croatia wants big $$ for a cruising permit, but I hear Turkey is trying to catch up.

As for Greece, it was the only place I really got upset about being ripped off, and more than once.

[gravosa]

Originally Posted by yeloya

Hi Gravosa,

I loved yr "objective" socioeconomical evaluations about Turkey, Croatia and the marinas and facilities in the UK which you say are definately worse than in Croatia..

Just by curiosity, you were saying "and,no, i am not croat or have any interests or bussiness in croatia".

And yet, on yr posting dated 28.06.2011 on the thread "croatian marinas" you said "are you shure. i am from croatia and i have never heard of that."

So, did you lose yr croatian nationality since then ?? Or maybe, being from Croatia doesn't necessarily mean being croatian ?? Lastly, have you ever been to Turkey "third world country" and chatted around with "poorman cruisers" there ??

Yeloya

yeas, and so what. that does not mean that i am croat or have any bussiness in croatia.
as a matter of fact i am writing this from london,and on many forums i said that i am from uk. and i am not englishman,or scot and have no any bussines in this country. actualy i am more "from uk" dan "from croatia". i am living 9 months of the year in the uk.

and yes, turkey is poor people cruising ground. or i will put that this way.

croatia is armani, turkey is primark.

[gravosa]

Originally Posted by donradcliffe

Croatia has great Italian food, but when I asked for and got the local dishes, they were stews that weren't nearly as good as the Czechs or Germans make.

fifty years ago they have never heard about stew in dalmatia(croatian adriatic coast) let alone to make one.as a matter of fact stews are only "native" local dish in the northern parts of croatia, borders with hungary and slovenia.if you wont to eat local food ask for dalmatian ham, manestra, octopus salad, brodet, stuffed squid, risot, grilled fish, boiled fish, musells, oysters.
that is local food on the coast. not stew

but how i can explain something to someone who 20 years ago could not even show croatia or adriatic on the map.and they are still thinking that croatian only food is cabage and potato.

that would be same like in england they served you "local" food,doner kebab, tikka masala or chicken curry.

stew is definitely not on the croatian adriatic coast "local" food.

this is LOCAL food, and i grow up on it.

[boatman61]

Thats Croatia scratched of the list.... yuuk...

[Katiusha]

We just came back to the boat from a 10 day drive through Turkey and its World Heritage Sites from Didim to Euphrates. We've seen the splendor of anchient Hittites, Greeks, Romans, Anatolians, Seljuks, Assyrians, early Christians, Muslims, Ottomans, and the mixture of those peoples that inhabits the area today. We've seen ancient temples, necropoli, cities, roadways, aqueducts, bridges, castles, monasteries, troglodyte cities, breath-taking rock formations, mountain lakes, deserts and lushest tropical landscapes. We've seen giant gods and kings carved out of mountain tops, necropoli on the water, sarcophagi at the mountain cliffs, fires of chimera, graves of Christian and Muslim saints. But, most of all, considerate and respectful people who are proud of their country, people of Turkic, Kurdic and Armenian roots.

This is the country that was (and is) "the bridge between the East and the West". Before this trip, I had not understood this expression in its complexity. Now I'm starting to get the idea. Going from the Western part of Turkey to the East, I started noticing people, customs, way of life, way of socializing change. And that's how I, a tourist, view this. Turkey on the inside must be very complex to maintain both ways of life side by side and at the same time move forward.

Ottoman was one of the largest empires (Egypt, Syria, Lebanon, Israel, Iraq, Armenia, Georgia, Macedonia, Greece, Bulgaria, Albania, Romania [Turks were the reason Vlad became The Impaler a.k.a. The Drakula], Serbia, etc) and was at its prime for over 6 centures.

Turkey has comforts and luxuries of the West [much improved on in some cases, like toilets] and the intricacies of the East. If you want to see something interesting and be nicely treated by famous Turkish hospitality, I don't think it's worth dismissing this country. Travel it instead.

P.S. I did find that Turkish hospitality is, in general, was more sincere as we went further East away from major tourist coastal areas. Of course, it is just a generality. Oh, and, very unexpectedly, more people spoke good English further East.

[swagman]

Chill guys - it does not look good when when you come across as 'one eyed'.

All three countries have up sides and to be honest, all have down sides also. But that does not mean one is any better or worse than the other. They just all suit different people and maybe even different needs.

The lovely thing is all three lands and peoples are so close together, the OP can see all three in a few months and then hopefully, decide if he has to love only one, or two, or all all three.

Enjoy
JOHN

[Buena Vista]

Originally Posted by swagman

Chill guys - it does not look good when when you come across as 'one eyed'.

Enjoy
JOHN

As the initiator of this thread, I have found it fascinating and informative, I love the passion. I didn't see anything in there that was particularly rude or obnoxious, just some healthy vigorous debate so keep it going I say, let's not just have "vanilla" comments.

Cheers & thanks
Brownie

[swagman]

As passionate as I can be, what's up with vanilla? :-)
JOHN

[Katiusha]

I guess he wants everyone to be unbiased about flavours, and include chocolate or raspberry into discussion...

[Buena Vista]

Originally Posted by swagman

As passionate as I can be, what's up with vanilla? :-)
JOHN

Hey Swaggy ...... "whats up with vanilla" ......... absolutely nothing when I am talking to my ex-wifes lawyer!!

Katiusha ....... yes chocolate and rasberry too, but a touch of salsa and chilli in the right quantity adds spice ....

Brownie

[Jacques2]

I wonder if Gravosa have ever sailed in the Aegean sea area and ever lived in Turkey for a moment. I wonder if he has a sailboat somewhere... I wonder a lot indeed !

[gravosa]

Originally Posted by Jacques2

I wonder if Gravosa have ever sailed in the Aegean sea area and ever lived in Turkey for a moment. I wonder if he has a sailboat somewhere... I wonder a lot indeed !

hehehe, gravosa was sailing aegean in the 1976 for the first time. gravosa had boat in his family since 19 century.

about turkey, i was in izmir in 1978. gravosa even reached black sea same year.

ps. katjusa, ar you katjusha or kaćuša

[himnher]

Well, we have no boat but how about this for a different take.

You say you want a base and you say you want airport access for friends and family to come and go, but does that necessarily mean a marina?

For the past 5 years we have gone out to Greek Sails in Poros. Poros is an hour south of Athen by hydrofoil and so access is via Athens International and then Pireaus. I guess it's an hour/90 mins airport to Pireaus, then 60 mins on the hydrofoil plus any waiting time. The benefit, in our view, is that Poros is a gorgeoous place and so is near yet so far.

Greek Sails do offer guardiennage and other yacht services, but it would be quayside rather than marina, but then it has the benefit of not being in a base of 100s of other yachts.

As to sailing, well being south of Athens you can strike out east through the Cyclades as we have done in the past few years, NE to the Sporades, or you can shelter in the Argolic or Saronic gulfs (we prefer the Argolic which has some wonderful sights), or you could even circumnavigate the Peloponnese going through the Corinth canal, itself an experience. This summer we crossed from Poros very nearly into Turkish waters and back in two weeks, and so I suspect you could cover the entire area from the one 'base' given you are cruising for a season.

There's some info on the sailing area and some pictures of some of the ports on the Greek Sails site.

So it's just out point of view...other I'm sure will tell you better, but I think Poros a lovely spot and not a bad base at all, albeit you're not talking marina and pontoons. On the other hand, it's pretty convenient for airport access yet far enough away to mean you don't have three discos turning their music onto the water and going all night...which isn't our cup of tea.

Anyway, hope this is of some use

[swagman]

Actually Poros does have a nice protected Marina as well as the long quay wall which sees some surge from passing traffic (including hydrofoils). But I fully agree both are good locations. If you visit again you'll find the Marina around the corner to your north as you head westward from the quay - complete with pontoons.
Cheers
.

[himnher]

Originally Posted by swagman

Actually Poros does have a nice protected Marina

Well yes I guess you're quite right. I've never really thought of the moorings up by the new ferry terminal as a marina, but there are indeed pontoons I don't know what arrangements there are to leave boats there. Is there any guardiennage?