Should A Non Eu Boat Sail Across The Atlantic To Sail The Med

[valhalla360]

Our plan is to stage the boat in the EU and cruise for 3 months at a time with some extensions in the non-schengen areas then spend 3 months in the USA cruising with our RV.

As long as we are smart about it, we figure the boat will offer cheaper living expenses even with storage factored in than trying to charter or take short land based trips in the EU.

The RV in the EU is something we considered (we have rented a motor home for a weeks trip in the past). There are some advantages but the problem is space. EU RV's are tiny by comparison, so the boat in the EU option and the big RV in the USA made a lot more sense for us as we know we are comfortable in our current boat and RV.

This winter we are also testing out a couple months in an apartment in Rome to check things out.

It takes some planning and would be nice if they gave you 6-12 months but hardly a deal breaker.

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by BandB

Well, that will be a couple of years. And we will likely alternate periods in Schengen countries and out of them, spending time in the UK, Croatia, and Turkey. While tourist visas are deemphasized, some of the countries still grant them. Now the problem with some countries is that once you exceed 90 days they require you to also obtain residency.



My advice to anyone desiring to go and feeling Schengen is too restrictive would be to engage a Passport and Visa service (professionals in the field, not the ones who just process paperwork).



France is one of the countries that does offer a longer visitor's visa:



1. Long stay visa and residence permit in France

Starting June 1st, 2009, long stay visa holders will be allowed to reside in France for up to 12 months according to the validity of their visa and purpose of stay. They will no longer be required to obtain a residence permit ("carte de séjour") from the French local authorities ("Préfecture") as long as their visa is valid.



However, long stay visa holders who intend on staying in France for more than six months have to register to the French Office of Immigration and Integration (OFII) during the first three months of their stay in France.



2. What is a visitor visa?

The "visitor" visa (or visa "D") allows you to enter France and stay for more than three months.



You need a long stay "visitor" visa if : you have suffficient income to stay in France without working (retired, sabbatical year…)



That is from: Long stay visa for visitors - Consulat Général de France à Miami



So, I don't profess to have all the information, but I do know some of the countries will grant longer term. I knew of France because a neighbor just got back from a 6 month trip to France. So I won't be the first although I am hoping Schengen has changed by the time we go to avoid needing other visas.

Actually France is one of the FEW EU countries. You might notice that you require a permanent French address or residence. Hence a boat isn't satisfactory. Furthermore being in the country for more then 180 days can have tax implications for you and the boat in the greater EU.

Hence in practice all of the few long term visas are not really useful or applicable to cruisers.

There simply isn't currently an accessible legal way for cruisers moving between countries to spend more then 90 days in 180 in the Schengen area.

Dave


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[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by atoll

only down side of the using the irish passport is you will be eligable to pay vat on your yacht,even if it has australian registration.

No , not at all, the possession of an EU passport has nothing to do with vat. It's the tax status of the owner, more correctly whether they are "established " in the EU , an American with his passport could have no vat relief whereas an Irishman on his passport could be entitled to the full 18 month exception.

Dave


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[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by geade

Welcome to the world. In 16 years we have experienced visa, CAIT, bribery, problems around the world. We were arrested in Indonesia for being overdue no act of god there. Australia was the pits, we were treated like potential criminals and tracked everywhere. Its diplomatic quid pro quo. Look at what the USA imposes on us "aliens." The problem now is that Europe is one big amorphous mess. As soon as England can re-gain it's independence and get out of this mess you will be most welcome.

I wasn't aware England was seeking independence, I know the scots want to leave the UK and remain in the EU, but I can't see Essex looking for self governance !!!

You are not be aware that the UK ( and Ireland ) is not inside the Schengen area and therefore currently make there own mind up as to it's tourist stay lengths. They currently routinely stamp you in for 90 days each. ( though there is a plan to harmonise the UK/Ireland stay to 90 days across both countries so as to cross recognise visa entrants into either country.

You may also not be aware that " E'rup" and Schengen are not interchangeable.


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[haiqu]

Originally Posted by svlamorocha

Let´s not mix the whole EU on this. It is just the Schengen countries. We Brits have nothing to do with that!

OP can go and spend a winter in England to reset his Schengen clock.

Mmmmm, winter in England. Sounds inviting ... not.

[/QUOTE]

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by haiqu

Mmmmm, winter in England. Sounds inviting ... not.

[/QUOTE]


It does provide ample opportunities to use your dinghy to rescue villagers from their rooftops though !

Dave


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[boatman61]

Originally Posted by haiqu

Mmmmm, winter in England. Sounds inviting ... not.

[/QUOTE]

I don't know.. can think of a few little marina's along the S. Coast I would not mind wintering in.. little 2 bar electric fire to keep everything warm and dry.. lotsa good pubs nearby.. a good public transport system to do some sight seeing if that's your thing..
And.. we're even civilised enough to have US food.. McDonalds and Pizza Huts every where..

[haiqu]

Originally Posted by boatman61

And.. we're even civilised enough to have US food.. McDonalds and Pizza Huts every where..

Being an Aussie I don't really care about US fast food chains.

But I did comment on an earlier thread that Schengen made the whole idea of sailing Europe difficult enough that it isn't on my horizon at all. Not while I can sail around this continent, or go to NZ for up to two years hassle free.

At this stage the big dream includes a trip through Asia, around South Africa and ending up in Brazil, then maybe heading up the East coast of the US. If and when the 3 months restrictions end I might consider Europe, but for a single-hander the paperwork and risks are simply too high.

[haiqu]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

It does provide ample opportunities to use your dinghy to rescue villagers from their rooftops though !

Giggling at the thought of one of those 400yo thatched rooves supporting the weight of the average fish-and-chip eater. :-)

[skipmac]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

Actually France is one of the FEW EU countries. You might notice that you require a permanent French address or residence. Hence a boat isn't satisfactory. Furthermore being in the country for more then 180 days can have tax implications for you and the boat in the greater EU.

Hence in practice all of the few long term visas are not really useful or applicable to cruisers.

There simply isn't currently an accessible legal way for cruisers moving between countries to spend more then 90 days in 180 in the Schengen area.

Dave


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My research on the issue confirms this exactly. If I recall, in theory long stay visas are offered by France, Italy, Spain, Portugal and Germany. Possibly others as well but these are the countries I went to the national web sites and read all the requirements. None of them looked easy and I believe all required a permanent address in the country. Plus several the paperwork required was quite daunting, seemly set up to specifically discourage anyone from applying.

The tax implications are certainly a potential problem but I have not yet seen or read anything specific or definitive on that issue. Do you have any specific information on this or just a general concern?

I wonder if leasing a slip at a marina in Europe as an address would be enough to comply?

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by haiqu

Being an Aussie I don't really care about US fast food chains.

But I did comment on an earlier thread that Schengen made the whole idea of sailing Europe difficult enough that it isn't on my horizon at all. Not while I can sail around this continent, or go to NZ for up to two years hassle free.

At this stage the big dream includes a trip through Asia, around South Africa and ending up in Brazil, then maybe heading up the East coast of the US. If and when the 3 months restrictions end I might consider Europe, but for a single-hander the paperwork and risks are simply too high.

Damn.. that'll teach me to check the Avatar before I post..

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by skipmac

My research on the issue confirms this exactly. If I recall, in theory long stay visas are offered by France, Italy, Spain, Portugal and Germany. Possibly others as well but these are the countries I went to the national web sites and read all the requirements. None of them looked easy and I believe all required a permanent address in the country. Plus several the paperwork required was quite daunting, seemly set up to specifically discourage anyone from applying.

The tax implications are certainly a potential problem but I have not yet seen or read anything specific or definitive on that issue. Do you have any specific information on this or just a general concern?

I wonder if leasing a slip at a marina in Europe as an address would be enough to comply?

The general rule is that residency beyond 180 days triggers a requirement to pay tax, register property etc. It doesn't automatically establish EU tax status, but in the main it does. Even though you have no income in the EU , mere residency is typically taken as " establishment " , of course with no income, most countries do not require automatic filing of tax returns, hence it's possible to fly under the radar.

There was a documented case a few years ago of a cruising couple detected as overstaying in France. With typical grace the French state decided to grant them a long stay visa to regularise their situation , and then with equally French logic, prompt billed them vat on their boat. !!

If you can find a years lease on a French berth in the med , you have far more wealth then is needed to bother with such visas !!

Dave



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[chuckr]

[QUOTE=skipmac;1557233]My research on the issue confirms this exactly. If I recall, in theory long stay visas are offered by France, Italy, Spain, Portugal and Germany. Possibly others as well but these are the countries I went to the national web sites and read all the requirements. None of them looked easy and I believe all required a permanent address in the country. Plus several the paperwork required was quite daunting, seemly set up to specifically discourage anyone from applying. QUOTE]


we had actually heard that portugal has made it very easy to get a long term stay visa if you do not want anything, like free this or that or everything - and can pay your own way -

we did go to the national police in madrid spain and were told they could not give us an extension but if we would take a train to lisbon and go to the spanish embassy they could -- then they told us just stay no one will care

but we want to fly back to the usa to see kids and grandkids for a couple of weeks and we were told by folks that the c&i at the airports count days regardless of the days and we just did not want to take the chance

we are now 37 days into our 90 and need to save 21 to get from albania back to italy and sciliy before heading to tunisia for the winter - so our visiting in the eu is about over - a day or so here or there but that is all

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by skipmac

My research on the issue confirms this exactly. If I recall, in theory long stay visas are offered by France, Italy, Spain, Portugal and Germany. Possibly others as well but these are the countries I went to the national web sites and read all the requirements. None of them looked easy and I believe all required a permanent address in the country. Plus several the paperwork required was quite daunting, seemly set up to specifically discourage anyone from applying.

The tax implications are certainly a potential problem but I have not yet seen or read anything specific or definitive on that issue. Do you have any specific information on this or just a general concern?

I wonder if leasing a slip at a marina in Europe as an address would be enough to comply?

I can't find the site now but I recall reading a blog where they used the marina address for a long stay visa in France and it was accepted.

Still appeared to be a lot of hassle with proof on substantial income, mandatory health checks, long waits and unclear rules. It probably doesn't solve being taxed as a resident either.

Marina costs weren't bad though as they were on the canal system.

[skipmac]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

If you can find a years lease on a French berth in the med , you have far more wealth then is needed to bother with such visas !!

Dave

Need to check my charts carefully but I think France might have ports on another coast besides the Med. Might even be less expensive in these other areas.

My idea would be to approach an accommodating marina and sign a year lease but not necessarily for full time docking. Lease space there as your "home port" but arrange with the marina that your lease only includes x days over the year. Even better if those days would be in the off season for the marina. Then stop in occasionally, pay the rent, pick up mail, etc.