Should A Non Eu Boat Sail Across The Atlantic To Sail The Med

[krissteyn]

Ken , Super post - My parameters are different to yours... Having a South African passport is definitely a drawback altho , apart from the huge extra expenses we had organising visa's with associated insurances - I suppose it was OK. Getting extensions is not always a done deal - I cruised for 11 months with the family - and kids have difficulty getting multiple exit visa's - Dont ask.... ! So I REALLY hassled with the paperwork.
My experience of cruising from Nova Scotia to St Maarten was a breeze in comparison....
I am sure if you want to a few weeks in each country - thats OK , but I could have spent just 4 months in Greece alone - enjoyed that part of it...

Thats the cruising life - if you dont like where you are , pick up the anchor and bugger off ...

Kris

[BandB]

Originally Posted by krissteyn

I am sure if you want to a few weeks in each country - thats OK , but I could have spent just 4 months in Greece alone - enjoyed that part of it...

Use the limits to your benefit is our philosophy. If I'm limited to 90 days in Greece, then I'll pick those things I want to see most and it will leave a desire to return another time. Meanwhile it also will lead me to another country, non-Schengen, and I might enjoy immensely a country I never would have seen otherwise. I've heard from many med cruisers who have found some of the non-Schengen countries to be real gems and were quite happy they found themselves sort of forced to see them. We just make the best of whatever situation we find ourselves in. Some of our best times have been in ports we got stuck in longer that expected because of weather. We found things we otherwise would not have.

[skipmac]

Originally Posted by Kenomac

After reading so many posts like this one, I just have to drop a note. Our experience over the past three seasons in the Med has been the exact opposite. I'm just finishing up our third summer, each time staying for the three best months... Although extensions are easy to get, and when you count days at sea, your stays can easily be extended past four months...

Hi Ken

Am very interested in the details of how to get an extension. My research so far did not turn up any mechanism for this other than documenting sea time or other time you are out of the Schengen area.

I do agree that from all reports, 99.9% of the time no one checks, cares or notices if you're on a boat and stay beyond 90 days. However, with my luck if I stayed over my allotted time I would be that one in a thousand that runs into an official who had a bad day and is looking for someone to take it out on.

[chuckr]

[QUOTE=Kenomac;1609709]After reading so many posts like this one, I just have to drop a note. Our experience over the past three seasons in the Med has been the exact opposite. I'm just finishing up our third summer, each time staying for the three best months... Although extensions are easy to get, and when you count days at sea, your stays can easily be extended past four months...

Ken -- interesting - but how do you count days at sea? when we left the Azores we did check out and the Portugal officals even suggested it but once we checked back in, unless i am totally mistaken and i am more than half the time, they count the days in your passport unless you do a long sail at which time you do check in and out. As for you time on board, we are full time cruisers and not 3-4 monthers so for those who are full time it is a totally different experience.
I agree that for the most part the officials could not be more helpful and not HomeLand Security officials trying to intimidate you. We have been boarded by the HomeLand in the USA and they went below and refused to allow one of us to accompy them and in fact one guy stood in the cockpit with his hand on his gun while his partner went below to look around. In the Med and the Carib, when we have been boarded in port the officials insist on someone go with them.
As for easy to get extensions please let us know how to do that, please.

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by kas_1611

Of course business visas exist in the Schengen Area, how do you think non Europeans get work permits in the EU??

Generally a business visa would only be issued to a person with a full time position and sponsored by their company, it would not be issued unless you can prove employment in the country of issue. Sailing around the Med would not count as permanent employment in your private vessel.

Spouses and children would be issued with a residence visa attached to the holder's work permit but unless otherwise indicated would not allow the partner to enter paid employment.

Happen to know this as friends from Serbia had to apply for a French work permit due to his job. This allowed them to travel around the Schengen Area but did not allow them to travel to UK or Ireland without applying for a separate visitor visa in advance.

Keiron

Lets gets the nomenclature right

Firstly the Schengen Area, and the Acquis is an agreement to implement a standardardised internal border with effectively no controls on movement and to implement a agree approach to those entering the area.

The Schengen Acquis, deals with three visa types, Two relate to transit (A,B) and the third is Type C , the 90- day tourist visa ( which can be issued with 1,2 & 5 year validity , C1,C2,C5),

The fourth type isn't a schengen visa at all, though its given a Type D moniker . This is a "National Visa" other then a tourist visa. National Visas, typically pre-date the Schengen agreement and are issued for work, extended study and other non-tourist purposes.

They all have specific circumstances and may or may not allow the holder to circulate within the EU or the Schnegen area, or may limit them to 90 days as per the Schengen visas. Some of these visa have specific bi-lateral agreements with other countries ( notably NZ)

Hence there is no such thing as "A Schengen business visa"

Work permits are National Visas, that typically allow the Holder to 90 days in Other schengen countries, i.e. you are a tourist.


PS it is not possible to "extend" a Schengen visa, you can substitute national visas and other arrangements but there simply isn't an extension to the tourist visa.
dave

[BandB]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

Lets gets the nomenclature right

Firstly the Schengen Area, and the Acquis is an agreement to implement a standardardised internal border with effectively no controls on movement and to implement a agree approach to those entering the area.

The Schengen Acquis, deals with three visa types, Two relate to transit (A,B) and the third is Type C , the 90- day tourist visa ( which can be issued with 1,2 & 5 year validity , C1,C2,C5),

The fourth type isn't a schengen visa at all, though its given a Type D moniker . This is a "National Visa" other then a tourist visa. National Visas, typically pre-date the Schengen agreement and are issued for work, extended study and other non-tourist purposes.

They all have specific circumstances and may or may not allow the holder to circulate within the EU or the Schnegen area, or may limit them to 90 days as per the Schengen visas. Some of these visa have specific bi-lateral agreements with other countries ( notably NZ)

Hence there is no such thing as "A Schengen business visa"

Work permits are National Visas, that typically allow the Holder to 90 days in Other schengen countries, i.e. you are a tourist.


PS it is not possible to "extend" a Schengen visa, you can substitute national visas and other arrangements but there simply isn't an extension to the tourist visa.
dave

Yes, people start mixing things that are totally different. I would say one thing too. Just because someone says something isn't checked regularly and it's easy to overstay, doesn't mean you should. You want a very fast way to ruin your entire trip, that's it. On those occasions someone is checked and is out of compliance then they not only have to leave but lose a lot of rights for returning. And all reports do say the level of checking has increased.

[savoir]

No Schengen business visa ? Sure there is and there always was too, right from the initial Schengen agreement.

The poster who referred to a Schengen business visa was correct in every aspect except the name. Is that really such a big deal ? FWIW the thing is called a long stay visa which can ( but doesn't have to ) be business related. Anyone who holds such a visa can gain multiple entry access to any Schengen country for the duration of the visa.

It's time to quit splitting hairs.

[BandB]

Here is an interesting article on the topic.

How to (Legally) Stay in Europe for More Than 90 Days | Nomadic Matt's Travel Site

I do know someone who recently got a long term visa on the basis of being a self employed travel writer. They have a blog and will be detailing their experiences in all the countries to encourage more cruisers to visit those areas.

Amazingly enough France still seems to be the easiest country to get a longer visa in.

[monte]

Savour that's just totally incorrect. Goat boating has it right
Bandb that used to work but they have since changed schengen policy so it's out of date and doesn't work anymore.

[BandB]

Originally Posted by monte

Savour that's just totally incorrect. Goat boating has it right
Bandb that used to work but they have since changed schengen policy so it's out of date and doesn't work anymore.

Oh so they've changed it it the past 30 days? Because this was done about a month ago. I don't know their exact details but know they had their boat shipped across and they're flying to France next week. I will repeat what I posted long ago. Talk to the embassy. Don't take my word or that of anyone else. Get an attorney or visa specialist who is expert.

[monte]

That article (blog post) was written it 2012. See below for the current regulations and changes
http://www.emigra.com/emigra-immigra...schengen-area/

[BandB]

Originally Posted by monte

That article (blog post) was written it 2012. See below for the current regulations and changes
Emigra » EUROPE – New Guidelines for Calculating Duration of Stay Limits in Schengen Area

As to the regulations and article you are correct. However, separate of the article what my acquaintance just did is under current rules and was just done in the last 30 days. I don't know the hows and wherefores. I do know they used an expert in the field to help them and an attorney in France. They also went to the embassy.

[monte]

Oh well it's entirely likely he obtained an extended tourist visa for France. That's doable and will allow him to travel within France for a year. It doesn't allow him to travel more than 90 days outside France in other schengen countries. That said, the other countries don't bother with schengen if you do have a valid visa for one of the member countries. Mainly because there are no border patrols between the countries anymore and passing between and counting days in and out is difficult. However it is still illegal and any immigration official can easily determine from the ships log your actual comings and goings if they so desire.
I'm speaking from my own personal experience having sailed around Europe the past 3 years in which the first year I did have a 1yr French tourist visa. Not easy to get btw and even companies like Ripcurl have a lot of hassles getting employees from aus to France because of the working visa difficulties.
If you do want to get a tourist visa for 12 months to take the pressure off, Greece is the place to apply

[BandB]

Originally Posted by monte

Oh well it's entirely likely he obtained an extended tourist visa for France. That's doable and will allow him to travel within France for a year. It doesn't allow him to travel more than 90 days outside France in other schengen countries. That said, the other countries don't bother with schengen if you do have a valid visa for one of the member countries. Mainly because there are no border patrols between the countries anymore and passing between and counting days in and out is difficult. However it is still illegal and any immigration official can easily determine from the ships log your actual comings and goings if they so desire.
I'm speaking from my own personal experience having sailed around Europe the past 3 years in which the first year I did have a 1yr French tourist visa. Not easy to get btw and even companies like Ripcurl have a lot of hassles getting employees from aus to France because of the working visa difficulties.
If you do want to get a tourist visa for 12 months to take the pressure off, Greece is the place to apply

I emailed to find out more. Got a skills and talents card. Apparently that grants a residence status. Got VAT exemption on his boat.

This card can be awarded to you if you are likely to participate because of your skills and talents, significant and sustainable economic development, or its intellectual, scientific, cultural, humanitarian and sports of France and directly or indirectly, the country of your nationality.

What are the criteria?
They are defined by the National Commission for Skills and talents that meets in France at least twice a year.

National criteria-Commission
- The applicant must submit a credible professional project meeting the criteria set by the National Commission. Applicants must prove, by any means, it is in its ability to achieve professional goals.
-
- The application will be based on
* The interest and quality of the project * motivations and the candidate * of skills and qualifications to drive commitment to the project * means at its disposal to achieve it.
What is the public involved?
- Graduates of higher education Skilled professionals, regardless of the level of degree holders investors an economic project: Independent professionals: professionals, artists, writers, sportsmen ... Senior executives and high-level employees of a French company belonging to an international group.
-

That's all I know. We're not likely to take such a path although have considered a business visa. Instead if Schengen hasn't changed we'll just balance Schengen and non-Schengen and maybe mix in a longer visa in one country. For instance, a French visa would allow 90 days Italy, 90 days France, 90 days UK, 90 days Spain, 90 days France, 90 days more non schengen, 90 days Greece. Some rotation like that. Do a Schengen country, then the country of your Visa, then non-Schengen, then back to Schengen.

Not recommending any of these visas, just saying that there are more options than one will find out here and there are experts familiar with those options plus each country's embassy.

[savoir]

Originally Posted by monte

That article (blog post) was written it 2012. See below for the current regulations and changes
Emigra » EUROPE – New Guidelines for Calculating Duration of Stay Limits in Schengen Area

I am totally correct.

You are confusing long stay with short stay visas and the link posted applies only to short stay visas. The Schengen agreement both in its original format and as amended contemplates long stay visas and sets out their rules. If you can qualify for one of the long stay categories then you can travel as much as you like through all Schengen member countries as often as you like. The only time restriction imposed by EC regulations is that your time in the Schengen area but outside the country which issued the visa is limited to 90 days.

As an example, you could spend 1 year in France on a business visa followed by 90 days wherever. The year in France does not affect or limit the 90 days.