Should A Non Eu Boat Sail Across The Atlantic To Sail The Med

[terra57]

We have flown in and out of Portugal, Spain and Italy with no problems. I might add it was easy checking into Portugal. The reason we haven't bothered elsewhere was not for a lack of trying. Non EU boats are a very small minority and you'll be lucky if you find anyone that knows how to check you in after Portugal. We have been in the Adriatic this year and checked into 3 countries. I think it's easy to check into Greece also. My point was in regard to Western Europe, Spain, France and Italy.


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[jckb]

Originally Posted by terra57

We have flown in and out of Portugal, Spain and Italy with no problems.

If you fly in to Schengen from outside Schengen, and you have a non-EU passport from a "friendly" country, it will be given a stamp on entry, and another on exit, with no problems at all.

In the past, you might have escaped detection if you overstayed your stamp limits (any 90 days in any 180 days). Since then, the majority of Schengen countries now use electronic passport readers which feed in to a central database.

The chances of overstays being detected keep rising.

[monte]

We have been checked numerous times over the past 3 years in the med. especially Portugal, France and Italy. The customs check passports, count days in schengen and have told us we have x number of days left. If we had been over they would have noticed and I'm sure some would have acted in the law. I'm Australian and the boat is Australian registered.

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by jckb

If you fly in to Schengen from outside Schengen, and you have a non-EU passport from a "friendly" country, it will be given a stamp on entry, and another on exit, with no problems at all.

In the past, you might have escaped detection if you overstayed your stamp limits (any 90 days in any 180 days). Since then, the majority of Schengen countries now use electronic passport readers which feed in to a central database.

The chances of overstays being detected keep rising.

Length of stay is not currently stored electronically. The machine reading is to check a EU wide watch list , that's all.

Dave

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by monte

We have been checked numerous times over the past 3 years in the med. especially Portugal, France and Italy. The customs check passports, count days in schengen and have told us we have x number of days left. If we had been over they would have noticed and I'm sure some would have acted in the law. I'm Australian and the boat is Australian registered.

There definitely seems to have been a significant increase in oversight in the last 2-3 years. Before it was quite uncommon

Dave

[chuckr]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

There definitely seems to have been a significant increase in oversight in the last 2-3 years. Before it was quite uncommon

Dave

we got stamped out of Italy with 25 days left but they did also check the computer as i know we got entered in Sardinia when we checked in as i watched him do it - but also got a stamp in
In albania we did not get a stamp in our passport and i asked and told they do it all electronically now - we left to macedonia no stamp out but macedonia stamped us as did kosovo - but when we came back into Albania nothing as nothing when we checked out
in Montenegro we got stamped in but when we went to Serbia we only got stamped in Serbia but never an out and when we returned nothing - not even a look at our passport

a lot done electronics now and they don't have to hunt for the entrance date through multiple pages of ins and outs -
we are not as worried about the little ports as we are about big ports and airports as they get a bit more serious and can get a bit sticky about things

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by chuckr

we got stamped out of Italy with 25 days left but they did also check the computer as i know we got entered in Sardinia when we checked in as i watched him do it - but also got a stamp in
In albania we did not get a stamp in our passport and i asked and told they do it all electronically now - we left to macedonia no stamp out but macedonia stamped us as did kosovo - but when we came back into Albania nothing as nothing when we checked out
in Montenegro we got stamped in but when we went to Serbia we only got stamped in Serbia but never an out and when we returned nothing - not even a look at our passport

a lot done electronics now and they don't have to hunt for the entrance date through multiple pages of ins and outs -
we are not as worried about the little ports as we are about big ports and airports as they get a bit more serious and can get a bit sticky about things

The current SIS - Schengen Information System is limited to monitoring watch lists. National data privacy laws simply prevent countries, even within the EU from exchanging certain data on citizens not suspected of anything ( unlike the US).

Within national boundaries, these restrictions don't apply, so hence the Sardinia situation.

SIS-II is currently being rolled out, and pressure is on to allow greater exchange of pertinent information, to my knowledge however the treaties have not been agreed on.

Hence today, it is not possible to electronically detect overstays based on a scan of the passport where you travel internally and exit from a different country then your entered. It would have to be looked at manually based on the Schengen Visa stamped in passport.


dave

[kas_1611]

Originally Posted by chuckr

we got stamped out of Italy with 25 days left but they did also check the computer as i know we got entered in Sardinia when we checked in as i watched him do it - but also got a stamp in
In albania we did not get a stamp in our passport and i asked and told they do it all electronically now - we left to macedonia no stamp out but macedonia stamped us as did kosovo - but when we came back into Albania nothing as nothing when we checked out
in Montenegro we got stamped in but when we went to Serbia we only got stamped in Serbia but never an out and when we returned nothing - not even a look at our passport

a lot done electronics now and they don't have to hunt for the entrance date through multiple pages of ins and outs -
we are not as worried about the little ports as we are about big ports and airports as they get a bit more serious and can get a bit sticky about things

That's all well and good but Macedonia, Albania, Montenegro and Serbia are NOT part of the EU nor part of the Schengen Accord so they don't count.

UK Immigration don't stamp your passport on the way out, in fact they don't even look at it but they can still tell when you left as the airlines have to provide the data electronically to UK Border Force so don't rely on a stamp in or out within your passport to prove anything.

Keiron

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by kas_1611

UK Immigration don't stamp your passport on the way out, in fact they don't even look at it but they can still tell when you left as the airlines have to provide the data electronically to UK Border Force so don't rely on a stamp in or out within your passport to prove anything.

Keiron

Indeed, several countries have such advanced passenger information systems. but in reality that has nothing to do with overstays or visa issues, but more to do with passenger profiling for security reasons.


dave

[monte]

Most of our checks were from patrol boats either coming along side us while sailing offshore, or anchoring the mothership and launching the RIB to board us and other non EU flagged vessels in anchorages. We see less patrol boats in Portugal than Spain and France.

[krissteyn]

Have not been able to read all the above - but dont lose sight of a shengen business visa - for 5 years - not sure how it all works - but I know they are available and stop the 3 month rule !
Your boat will be a separate issue
I was going to use Malta for my business visa , but declined because my wife was ok (staff) but our 10 year old kid was a problem .... So we got 1 year visa for Greece and then travelled...
good luck - I will never cruise the med again - all the schengen bureaucracy spoilt it for me.

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by krissteyn

Have not been able to read all the above - but dont lose sight of a shengen business visa - for 5 years - not sure how it all works - but I know they are available and stop the 3 month rule !
Your boat will be a separate issue
I was going to use Malta for my business visa , but declined because my wife was ok (staff) but our 10 year old kid was a problem .... So we got 1 year visa for Greece and then travelled...
good luck - I will never cruise the med again - all the schengen bureaucracy spoilt it for me.

No such thing exists

Dave

[kas_1611]

Of course business visas exist in the Schengen Area, how do you think non Europeans get work permits in the EU??

Generally a business visa would only be issued to a person with a full time position and sponsored by their company, it would not be issued unless you can prove employment in the country of issue. Sailing around the Med would not count as permanent employment in your private vessel.

Spouses and children would be issued with a residence visa attached to the holder's work permit but unless otherwise indicated would not allow the partner to enter paid employment.

Happen to know this as friends from Serbia had to apply for a French work permit due to his job. This allowed them to travel around the Schengen Area but did not allow them to travel to UK or Ireland without applying for a separate visitor visa in advance.

Keiron

[krissteyn]

It took a bit of digging and a bunch of questions - but it is there - Greece offered me one - the "deposit" was a bit heavy , so I declined...
I think most "tourists" dont even think of it and they appear to keep it for business only.
Ask - and thou shalt receive - but it does come with strings.

[Kenomac]

Originally Posted by krissteyn

I will never cruise the med again - all the schengen bureaucracy spoilt it for me.

After reading so many posts like this one, I just have to drop a note. Our experience over the past three seasons in the Med has been the exact opposite. I'm just finishing up our third summer, each time staying for the three best months... Although extensions are easy to get, and when you count days at sea, your stays can easily be extended past four months... And I have to say, we have yet to be boarded or questioned by a patrol boat anywhere. The few immigration officials we've met have been polite and helpful. This morning a Sardinian Coast Guard RIB came by our anchorage and circled us very slowly, the two officers on board were wearing white polo shirts and navy blue shorts... No guns or intimidation like in the US where you can expect six men in black with side arms and a guy on the bow with a machine gun pointed at you. Except for the insignia on the side of the boat... You would never know they were coast guard. They never stopped, but instead went over to check paperwork on an Italian flagged vessel, spent an hour there.

I encourage everyone to come over to the Med and enjoy the history, great food, thousands of free anchorages, no crime except for big city pick pockets, perfect weather and no hassles. We've found that if you don't make any trouble... The authorities just leave you alone. If you need their assistance, they are willing to help out. VAT is a non-issue if you use a customs bonding agent, where your vessel is sealed up by a government official while you're back in the states and the days don't count towards VAT obligations. All perfectly legal.

I'm sure if you came over here and acted like an arrogant, obnoxious, ignorant fool, your experience can wind up quite different. Not to imply anyone posting negative stuff has acted this way.

Ken