Should A Non Eu Boat Sail Across The Atlantic To Sail The Med

[Hadjiosif]

Originally Posted by SVAspen

We started out last year, in July of 2013, in Turkey and checked into the EU in Greece in the middle of August. Then it was 3 months of beating across the Med to Gibraltar. We skipped Croatia because of the strong winds that come from the continent and costs there while staying south to Sicily and points west.

At the beginning of October we made sure we sailed south (to avoid headwinds later in October) to the Canaries and joined the ARC - what a fantastic experience that Rally is!

We had exited the Med just at the end of our 90 days in Euro Land but overstayed once we were in the Canaries waiting for the ARC to leave. In the Canaries the Spanish officials could care less about Schengen and we got our exit stamp without any problems at all.

Would we skip the Med with our boat, knowing what we know now? Well, the culture in the Med is fantastic with Turkey being the highlight of our voyage. Touring on land is well worth the effort. But the sailing pretty much sucks because of the adverse and strong winds and steep seas that rarely diminish during the summer sailing season.

Joining the ARC made us appreciate sailing once again and making landfall on St. Lucia after crossing the Atlantic was a highlight of our voyage.

If I were going over to the Med I would use my 90 days in the EU by sailing to Turkey to get out of the EU before 90 days, put the boat in storage for the winter in Turkey and then sail back across to the Caribbean the following year.

Of course the choice is yours to make. Good luck with your decision!

SVAspen,
Excellent information in your posting. Did not expect that the ARC crossing would be easier than transversing the Med! What advise would you give to someone planning to cross from the US East coast (NJ) to the Greek Islands next spring as far as sailing is concerned? Schengen is not an issue with me. Thanks.

[SVAspen]

I didn't mean to imply that the Atlantic crossing was easier than crossing the Med - because it is NOT! The Atlantic crossing was an extremely difficult crossing with 25-30+ knots of sustained wind for over 2.5 weeks out of the 26 days it took us to make landfall in St. Lucia!!

I would cross over to the Med with ARC Europe (meet them in Bermuda) in May. You will make many friends with the ARC and be able to cruise Portugal before heading into the Med.

Good luck!

Originally Posted by Hadjiosif

SVAspen,
Excellent information in your posting. Did not expect that the ARC crossing would be easier than transversing the Med! What advise would you give to someone planning to cross from the US East coast (NJ) to the Greek Islands next spring as far as sailing is concerned? Schengen is not an issue with me. Thanks.

[SailingwithSoul]

I'm not sure is this was posted before, but from the the US Department of State's website (emphasis added):

"If you are a U.S. citizen with a valid U.S. passport traveling for tourism or business, you can apply to enter the Schengen area without a visa for a period of three months within each six-month period. If you spend three months in the Schengen area during any six-month period, you must wait another three months before you can apply to enter the Schengen area again without a visa. If you do not meet these conditions, or plan to stay in the Schengen area longer than three months, contact the embassy of the country where you plan to spend the majority of your time to apply for a visa."

I also found a site that has info on who needs/is exempt from the Visa.

Some EU countries, like Italy, grant "long-stay" visas. That may be an option for long term med cruising.

[jckb]

Originally Posted by SailingwithSoul

Some EU countries, like Italy, grant "long-stay" visas. That may be an option for long term med cruising.

As long as these are tourist visas, no problem. France is generous with these, too.

Beware of visas given for "residence". EU residents may only use VAT paid boats. And it's a bit difficult proving you're not an EU resident if you have a residence permit!

This whole subject of visas, and permissions to stay (for boats, and for people), when visiting countries in Europe or around the Mediterranean, is covered in considerable detail on Time Abroad | JimB Sail , with links to legal references if you want to be bored to tears.

JimB

[chuckr]

Originally Posted by SVAspen

I didn't mean to imply that the Atlantic crossing was easier than crossing the Med - because it is NOT! The Atlantic crossing was an extremely difficult crossing with 25-30+ knots of sustained wind for over 2.5 weeks out of the 26 days it took us to make landfall in St. Lucia!!

I would cross over to the Med with ARC Europe (meet them in Bermuda) in May. You will make many friends with the ARC and be able to cruise Portugal before heading into the Med.

Good luck!

We do not do rallys or ARC. We like to pick our time and how we do it. We did cross over in 2013 leaving Antigua on May 1 and sailed stright to Horta. Not a bad crossing at all.

Once in Shengren area we had to keep moving to try and get in as much as possible and still be legal. We did overstay by a couple of weeks but when we check out at Sardinia they did note that but only question was "non Schengren" to which we replied yes and they stamped us out.

We wintered over in Tunisia and had a great time and will do so again this winter.

this year we sailed Sardina, Corsica to Rome, down the coast and around the boot of Italy to Albania and now in Montenegro headed to Croatia and then back to Tunisia. We are watching our Schengren days as we want to go to Venice and Sciliy. We are 65 days into our Schengren and the way it looks now should be ok. the only problem is we can not see as much as we would like and have to keep moving. We have had folks in Italy ask us to winter there and we mention Schengren and they go quiet.

As i stated on the first posting, I would not do this again and advise all who plan it not to. It is easier and cheaper to fly over and rent a motor home and drive around and see more and do more than sail over and deal with the marinas and the weather; the weather can be brutal here. As they say in the Med there are 2 kinds of wind - too much or too little.

Also JimB sails has some good information on it but Jim totally underestimates, in my opinion, the ease with which one can get a tourist visa. But that is my opinion.

[su2014]

thanks for the PM. we are not in a hurry and considering this move carefully. 30 percent increases the nlastn couple of years have not escaped our attention.The OP is right on severaval notes mainly that i figure its just cheaper to charter then move our craft right now. i am in so much a non-hurry that once i see increased marina fees in turkey etc. where it snows i lose interest fast. thanks for the PMs and i will be sure to consider any moves very carefully. fairwinds and godspeed.

[Capt Phil]

Fascinating and informative thread... Thank You! I'm just glad I did my tour of the Med prior to 1983 and cruised around in a chartered Alba 55 for about 4 months out of Rhodes hitting about 6-7 different countries long before Yugoslavia split up and Dobrovnik was still a cosmopolitan 'old' city with its hugh walls built in 8-900 AD. Not sure I could keep all the Shengen stuff straight now! It was great to travel on a Canadian passport then. Cheers, Phil

[su2014]

Originally Posted by Capt Phil

Fascinating and informative thread... Thank You! I'm just glad I did my tour of the Med prior to 1983 and cruised around in a chartered Alba 55 for about 4 months out of Rhodes hitting about 6-7 different countries long before Yugoslavia split up and Dobrovnik was still a cosmopolitan 'old' city with its hugh walls built in 8-900 AD. Not sure I could keep all the Shengen stuff straight now! It was great to travel on a Canadian passport then. Cheers, Phil

so youer advice is 11 years old. no big deal bud. i got more revelant info.fairwinds and godspeed.

[Capt Phil]

Originally Posted by sugarbaby-dot-c

so youer advice is 11 years old. no big deal bud. i got more revelant info.fairwinds and godspeed.

I'm just nostalgic for the simpler days, Sugar... cheers, Phil

[su2014]

actually your rates are 21 years ago. heard a 5 star marina bill then in turkey was 10USA dollars. ha ha ha, well things have changed now capt. phil both in the med and port hardy,BC. i wont be in a hurry to move my craft to turkey anytime soon after the recent 30% yearly increaeses of the marina fees.its really just a floating condo i use anyhow.fairwinds and godspeed.

[Capt Phil]

I recall Port Hardy well, Sugar... towed logs into the sawmills there in the 50's and 60's which should give you an idea of my vintage. And, yes, my recollection of costs in the Med are equally as dated! Sorry... but great memories! Cheers, Phil

[terra57]

Just for the record. In Western Europe the 90 day rule is not enforced. Our boat has been stopped and searched and our papers and passports reviewed numerous times. They have never inquired about Schengen in Western Europe in 5 years BUT they do inquire and check the 18 mo rule for the VAT tax exclusion always!


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[skipmac]

Perhaps the 90 day rule isn't enforced but from what I hear that may be most of the time but not all of the time.

Regardless, it is the law and I would not feel comfortable going past the 90 day limit assuming I would probably not get caught.

[Dauntlessny]

Originally Posted by terra57

Just for the record. In Western Europe the 90 day rule is not enforced. Our boat has been stopped and searched and our papers and passports reviewed numerous times. They have never inquired about Schengen in Western Europe in 5 years BUT they do inquire and check the 18 mo rule for the VAT tax exclusion always!


Sent from my iPhone using Cruisers Sailing Forum

This is also my understanding, BUT ONE BIG CAVEAT. This works as long as you stay with your boat. As soon as you try to leave via airport, they may not let you back, from even the most lenient countries. They will give you the big red three year ban on your way out, then what about your boat!!

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[jckb]

Originally Posted by Dauntlessny

This is also my understanding, BUT ONE BIG CAVEAT. This works as long as you stay with your boat. As soon as you try to leave via airport, they may not let you back, from even the most lenient countries. They will give you the big red three year ban on your way out, then what about your boat!!

Your caveat is exactly right. This topic is covered in some detail at Time Abroad | JimB Sail - then scroll down the page to:
Non-EU? Visas? Passport Stamps?

If you are not given an entry stamp or visa with entry stamp when arriving in Schengen, you (personally) do not have free circulation. It is assumed you remain on the boat. If you then try to leave Schengen by "approved means of transport" (train, ferry, aircraft) your lack of stamp will be noted, and it will be assumed you are an illegal immigrant, subject to a fine, and an entry ban for a period of time.

These are similar to the penalties levied if you overstay your time in Schengen.

If you have to leave by "approved means of transport" due to family emergency, or whatever, go to the first immigration port you can find, and get an entry stamp. Then catch your 'plane!

JimB