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Old 14-07-2019, 03:59   #1
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Schengen and bilateral agreements - includes Aust, NZ, Canada, US etc

If you have valid Australian passport and want to stay longer than 90 day schengen read the article in this link and then do your own research.

Visas for Australians in Europe: How the Schengen and bilateral agreements allow travellers to stay longer
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Old 14-07-2019, 22:26   #2
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re: Schengen and bilateral agreements - includes Aust, NZ, Canada, US etc

Very interesting! Thanks.
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Old 15-07-2019, 03:15   #3
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re: Schengen and bilateral agreements - includes Aust, NZ, Canada, US etc

Karabil, many thanks for this alert.

Several countries have bilateral agreements that allow travellers to stay visa free in the Schengen country for a set number of days or months, regardless of stays in other Schengen countries, so I have taken the liberty of making a small change to the thread title to help keep the information in one place.

I have not heard this issue raised previously, but these are not new regulations. Bilateral agreements were in place between many countries before Schengen regulations (lots in the 1950’s) and many of these still remain current.

The official information regarding Australians can be found on this government website:
https://smartraveller.gov.au/bulleti...ver_agreements

It starts with:
Still current at: 15 July 2019.
“This bulletin has new information on bilateral visa waiver agreements with European countries.”
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Old 15-07-2019, 03:21   #4
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re: Schengen and bilateral agreements - includes Aust, NZ, Canada, US etc

Countries with bilateral visa waiver agreements apparently include:

* Austria
* Belgium
* Denmark
* Finland
* France
* Germany
* Iceland
* Italy
* Luxembourg
* Netherlands
* Norway
* Sweden

Any to add to this list?

Detailed information is not easy to find.
I will start the ball rolling with Denmark. If anyone has links to official websites with information it would be very helpful if they could add these. It is sometimes buried deeply.
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Old 15-07-2019, 03:29   #5
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re: Schengen and bilateral agreements - includes Aust, NZ, Canada, US etc

DENMARK

https://www.nyidanmark.dk/en-GB/You-...sa-free-visits


Citizens of certain countries are entitled to stay in Denmark for 90 days or 3 months, regardless of stays in other Schengen countries.
Citizens of Australia, Canada, Chile, Israel, Japan, Malaysia, New Zealand, Singapore, South Korea and the US can freely enter and stay in Denmark for the following periods, regardless of whether they have stayed in another Schengen country prior to entry into Denmark........



For all the details see the drop down menu under:
“How long can you stay in the Schengen region?”
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Old 15-07-2019, 03:38   #6
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Re: Schengen and bilateral agreements - includes Aust, NZ, Canada, US etc

NORWAY

I have found nothing in the English version of the Norwegian website UDI, but this is current information from the Norwegian embassy in Australia:

https://www.norway.no/en/australia/s...teralagreement

Bilateral agreement
If travelling under the visa waiver scheme, you may stay in the Schengen area for up to 90 days during a period of 180 days. The stay can be for 90 consecutive days, or divided into several stays. It is your responsibility to make sure that you are not overstaying the visa free period.

However, Norway currently have valid separate bilateral agreement with several countries, including Australia and New Zealand, allowing stays for up to 90 days visa free in Norway in addition to any days spent in a non-Nordic Schengen country. Consequently, Australian and New Zealand citizens, travelling on Australian or New Zealand passport, will not be refused entry to Norway due to time spent in e.g. Spain. Whether or not non-Nordic countries such as Spain will disregard time spent in the Nordic countries before entering Spain must be confirmed with the Spanish immigration authorities.”
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Old 15-07-2019, 03:57   #7
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Re: Schengen and bilateral agreements - includes Aust, NZ, Canada, US etc

GERMANY

Again, so far I have only found info relevant to Aussies, but the regulations are extraordinarily generous:

https://australien.diplo.de/au-en/se...m-visa/2073662


“The German-Australian Agreement on the Exemption of Visa Requirements, dated 22.12.1952

Australian citizens are allowed to travel to Germany and to stay in Germany for up to 90 days without having to apply for a visa, as long as their passport is valid for the entire duration of the stay and as long as they do not engage in any kind of employment in Germany.

According to this agreement the duration of one stay in Germany must not exceed 90 days but the number of entries to Germany is not limited. In order to re-enter Germany for another 90 days, visitors have to depart Germany for any other non-Schengen country and can come back even the same day. Since visitors need to be able to document the period of time they have been spending in Germany, we recommend to enter and to depart via a German airport in order to obtain an official entry and departure stamp in their passport.

Please be aware that this special regulation applies only for your stays in Germany. It will not authorise you to stay more than 90 days in any 180-day period in the other Schengen countries, unless they also have a similar bilateral Agreement.”
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Old 15-07-2019, 04:12   #8
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Re: Schengen and bilateral agreements - includes Aust, NZ, Canada, US etc

An excellent thread. Although I’m not troubled by all this since I hold more than one passport, I’ve found out that the USA also has several bilateral visa agreements with Schengen countries including one with France, Poland and Hungary. Add the UK, Montenegro, Croatia, Albania, Bulgaria and Ireland to the list of places to go, then Americans can easily remain in Europe indefinitely with careful planning.

Here’s good article: http://trueanomaly.org/2017/08/16/ho...ays/#more-1986

Just make sure to take Switzerland off the list... they count the days and will give you all kinds of headaches.
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Old 15-07-2019, 04:16   #9
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Re: Schengen and bilateral agreements - includes Aust, NZ, Canada, US etc

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenomac View Post
An excellent thread. Although I’m not troubled by all this since I hold more than one passport, I’ve found out that the USA also has several bilateral visa agreements with Schengen countries including one with France, Poland and Hungary.
Do you have a link to a government or embassy website detailing this? It could be French/Polish/Hungarian or US.

I think this would be needed if challenged by an official. I think this is likely to occur, as these bilateral agreements are not widely known, even by those implementing the regulations.
An internet article from a non official source just won’t cut it if you need to defend your status.
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Old 15-07-2019, 06:57   #10
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Re: Schengen and bilateral agreements - includes Aust, NZ, Canada, US etc

To help keep all available information in one spot, I am adding a copy of a couple of earlier posts Karabil made in another thread:

Quote:
Originally Posted by karabil View Post
As an Australian you have the right to 90 days out of 180 in Italy regardless of time spent in any other schengen zone. This also aplies in spain, germany, and Netherlands. Of course your time in italy will count in those of the schengen without speciail agreements with Australia.
So you could do 3 monyhs in greece or france, then 3 months in italy, then 3 months out of schengen croatia or turkey, then back to the cycle again.
Quote:
Originally Posted by karabil View Post
Australia does have a seperate agreement with the countries I listed above. As i said Italy, Spain, Germany, Netherlands allow Australians time in their countries regardless of time spent in other schengen countries, BUT the other schengen countries will count your time in all schengen countries, thats why you have to plan the direction of travel.

Germany allows Australians to stay in Germany for 90, exit to a preferably non schengen country for a day and then re enter for another 90 days. The advice is a non schengen so you are stamped as entering Germany, not the schengen. You can continue this pattern.

Italy allows Australians 3 months in, 1 month out, 3 months in etc. Exact wording in the document no. 2447, signed in Rome on 19th june 1951 and still effective states - Australian nationals in possession of a valid Australian passport who decide to enter Italy for reasons other than taking up permamemt residence, will be able to enter, and re,ain in, the territory of the republic for a period not exceeding 3 months without a visa,. This concession does not apply to Somaliland, which is under Italian trusteeship administration. Australian nationals who have entered Italy without a visa and have spent 3 concecutive months in the country, may re-enter Italy without a visa after an absence from the territory of the republic of a period of one month, unless they obtain special exemption from the appropriate authorities. It continues on to say you have to comply with laws which doesnt allow employments etc.

I reserched both these agreements on the web, the German one was easy to find, the Italian a little harder so I printed it out. Havnt bothered with the Spanish or others yet as not options for me.

Obviously contact the embassy of whichever country you want to spend the extra time in to verify that they understand these agreements are still valid. According to what I found they are.


Visas for Australians in Europe: How the Schengen and bilateral agreements allow travellers to stay longer

Hi Karabil
I have found several old bilateral agreements, but in most cases nothing official to say that they are still current. Do you have any links to add?

Contacting the relevant embassy is an excellent suggestion.
They will provide up to date information and I think a personal email will stand you in good stead if this regulation is challenged by officials.

Hopefully a few members will chime in with more information and reports of their experiences.

SWL
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Old 15-07-2019, 07:14   #11
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Re: Schengen and bilateral agreements - includes Aust, NZ, Canada, US etc

Below are the old treaties I have found that were formed with Australia.
It seems they may all still be current.
According to this Australian government DFAT website: https://smartraveller.gov.au/bulleti...ver_agreements some kind of bilateral agreement is still in place with these countries, but it doesn’t point specifically to which treaty. I have found no new treaties covering visas, so these may actually be it.

It would be good to have more official information regarding this from the countries themselves:

Germany:
Exchange of Notes constituting an Agreement between the Government of Australia and the Government of the Federal Republic of Germany regarding Visas and Visa Fees [1953] ATS 1

Finland:
http://www3.austlii.edu.au/au/other/...es/1961/3.html

Netherlands:
Exchange of Notes constituting an Agreement between the Government of Australia and the Government of the Netherlands concerning Visas and Visa Fees [1951] ATS 4

Italy:
Exchange of Notes constituting an Agreement between the Government of Australia and the Government of Italy on Visas and Visa Fees [1951] ATS 5

Belgium:
Exchange of Notes constituting an Agreement between the Government of Australia and the Government of Belgium concerning Visas and Visa Fees [1951] ATS 6

Luxembourg:
Exchange of Notes constituting an Agreement between the Government of Australia and the Government of the Grand Duchy of Luxembourg regarding Visas and Visa Fees [1951] ATS 7

Austria:
Exchange of Notes constituting an Agreement between the Government of Australia and the Government of the Federal Republic of Austria on Visas and Visa Fees [1956] ATS 8

Sweden:
http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/other/d...s/1951/10.html

France:
http://www3.austlii.edu.au/au/other/...s/1999/11.html


NOTE:
The Australian DFAT website does NOT mention that any agreements with these countries are still current:
Greece:
http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/other/d...s/1954/13.html


When listing the countries Australia has bilateral visa waiver agreements with, the Australian DFAT website states:
Contact the Embassy or Consulate of the relevant country for the details on how they operate the visa-waiver agreements.

SWL
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Old 15-07-2019, 10:23   #12
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Re: Schengen and bilateral agreements - includes Aust, NZ, Canada, US etc

Do Australians need to apply for a Visit prior to heading to Croatia ?
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Old 16-07-2019, 04:38   #13
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Re: Schengen and bilateral agreements - includes Aust, NZ, Canada, US etc

Quote:
Originally Posted by mindsofman View Post
Do Australians need to apply for a Visit prior to heading to Croatia ?
This is the info from the Australian Government DFAT website, updated 16.7.19:

https://smartraveller.gov.au/Countri...s/croatia.aspx

Australians travelling for tourism or business do not need a visa to enter Croatia for stays of up to 90 days within a six-month period. If you are travelling for another purpose, such as work or study, or you plan to stay for longer than 90 days in six months, you'll need a visa.
Croatia is part of the European Union (EU) but is not a member of the Schengen area.
Visa and other entry and exit conditions (such as currency, customs and quarantine regulations) can change at short notice. Contact an Embassy or Consulate of Croatia for up-to-date information.


SWL
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Old 17-07-2019, 09:44   #14
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Re: Schengen and bilateral agreements - includes Aust, NZ, Canada, US etc

Another scrap of information:

This is taken from the “User’s guide” pdf:

https://ec.europa.eu/assets/home/vis..._manual_en.pdf

that is attached to this “calculator”:

https://ec.europa.eu/assets/home/vis...or.htm?lang=en


The calculator cannot take into account more favourable rules applicable to short-stays of third-country nationals under bilateral visa waiver agreements between certain Schengen States and certain third countries as provided by Article 20(2) of the Convention Implementing the Schengen Agreement (CISA). According to that provision Member States have the possibility to "extend" the duration of stay of visa-free third-country nationals beyond 90 days under the following circumstances. In case a Schengen State concluded a bilateral visa waiver agreement with a third country of the so-called "positive visa list" (like Canada, New Zealand or the US) before the entry into force of the Schengen Agreement (or the date of its later accession to the Schengen Agreement), the provisions of that bilateral agreement may continue to apply. The CISA provides for a Schengen State the possibility to extend a visa-free stay beyond 90 days in its territory for the nationals of the third country concerned in accordance with such an existing bilateral agreement. Thus, for example the nationals of Canada, New Zealand, US, etc. – depending on the continued application of the agreement by the Schengen State - may stay in such Schengen States for the period provided by the bilateral visa waiver agreement in force between the two countries (generally three months), on top of the general 90 days stay in the Schengen area. Article 20(2) of the CISA only provides for the possibility for the Schengen States to apply their "old" bilateral agreements for such extension, but this is not an obligation. No algorithm could be developed in the calculator to take into account this possibility.


Up to recently, for some reason these several decade old bilateral agreements that predated Schengen rules and have never been rescinded, were not widely publicised.

This seems to be altering.

This dramatically alters how some non-Europeans can cruise in Europe.

SWL
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Old 17-07-2019, 10:01   #15
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Re: Schengen and bilateral agreements - includes Aust, NZ, Canada, US etc

We've discussed this many times over the years.

Aussies and Kiwis have the best ones, but Yanks have a number as well.

The problem for cruisers is that although one country may give you this benefit, other Schengen countries will count the time you stay legally in the treaty country as burning up your time for other Schengen countries So you end up stuck in that treaty country. So it's not really any dramatic alteration if you are cruising from country to country, but could be helpful if you are staying in one place, or go from one treaty country to another without passing through non-treaty Schengen countries.

So only actual non-Schengen countries like the UK or Turkey really let you build up fresh Schengen days.
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