Schengen and bilateral agreements - includes Aust, NZ, Canada, US etc

[Anders]

ETIAS is not a visa but an authorisation similar to the US ESTA and will be needed by everyone that does not need a visa to enter Schengen.
It will not change the length of stay in the Schengen countries.

[Dauntlessny]

ETIAS was done because the USA insisted on having Europeans get a visa waiver.
Nothing else is changed.
😣

[RELENTLESS 1]

I have read all this and would appreciate any advice:
We are going to FR in late May to visit the Factory and attend Outremer Cup Week and Regatta.
Rather than fly back to the US we will buy a Eurail Pass and travel 3-4 weeks until our boat is ready for delivery the first week of July in southern France.
We plan to sail locally for 35 days and return to the US for 2 weeks then back to FR pick up the boat and head either to Greece or Montenegro/Turkey/Croatia and winter the boat out of the EU by mid-November.
We will exceed the 90 days unless we hustle over to Turkey or Croatia.

Is it a viable solution to obtain a 1 year French Visa and will that allow us to travel any EU/Schengen country for the 1 year period without penalty?

[Matt Johnson]

Originally Posted by RELENTLESS 1

I have read all this and would appreciate any advice:
We are going to FR in late May to visit the Factory and attend Outremer Cup Week and Regatta.
Rather than fly back to the US we will buy a Eurail Pass and travel 3-4 weeks until our boat is ready for delivery the first week of July in southern France.
We plan to sail locally for 35 days and return to the US for 2 weeks then back to FR pick up the boat and head either to Greece or Montenegro/Turkey/Croatia and winter the boat out of the EU by mid-November.
We will exceed the 90 days unless we hustle over to Turkey or Croatia.

Is it a viable solution to obtain a 1 year French Visa and will that allow us to travel any EU/Schengen country for the 1 year period without penalty?

If I were you, I'd head over to the UK or Ireland for the 3-4 weeks after the Outremer Cup and bank those Schengen days for after you take delivery of the boat.

Unlike a Schengen extension or travelling under a bilateral agreement, the French residency visa does allow you to travel to other countries in the Schengen territory. Since you're still in the US, and going back for a few weeks after the initial visit, I'd shoot for a residency visa if you can. But before applying, look into if you'd then be required to pay VAT on the new boat.

Matt

[Pete7]

Originally Posted by funjohnson

If I were you, I'd head over to the UK or Ireland for the 3-4 weeks after the Outremer Cup and bank those Schengen days for after you take delivery of the boat. Matt

Perfect timing to be in England. Queens birthday Parade, Wimbledon Tennis and round the Island Yacht Race

Pete

[Naughty Cat]

France has a six month and one year visitors visa. The bar gets higher as the duration gets longer. If 6 months suits, go for that as the financial information you will need to dicose is less and the health insurance will cost less also. Plenty of info on the .gouv.fr website or I can put you in contact with someone in France that can help if you would like.

[cavitation]

I realise this thread is a couple of years old but I am hoping someone can give some current information for some Australians planing to sail within the Shengan states.
In a couple of months we will pick up our newly acquired yacht and sail the Med. Then make our way across the North Atlantic to Panama and sail across the South Pacific to home.
We have been working under the impression that we only had 90 days of Shenghan visa to sail the Med. And to make us a little more nervous, we burned up 2 weeks looking at the boat in December.
We plan to sail across the Ionian Sea to Greece and then back up the western side of Italy to France, Spain etc and then get out of the territories before our time was up. I have just read the 3 pages of this thread and have seen glimmers of hope that the 90 day ruling may be each of the countries that I listed. Can anyone give a fresh update?

[boatman61]

Nope.. to the best of my knowledge 90 days are all you can spend in Schengen.
You may be able to get visas for say Italy and Spain allowing you to do Italy, Sicily and Sardinia then jumping across to the Ballearics and mainland Spain but short of enquiring at your local Embassies in Oz I can't say it's a certainty.
That would allow you 90 days in Greece etc then 90 in Italy and 90 in Spanish territories.. theoretically.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by cavitation

I realise this thread is a couple of years old but I am hoping someone can give some current information for some Australians planing to sail within the Shengan states.
In a couple of months we will pick up our newly acquired yacht and sail the Med. Then make our way across the North Atlantic to Panama and sail across the South Pacific to home.
We have been working under the impression that we only had 90 days of Shenghan visa to sail the Med. And to make us a little more nervous, we burned up 2 weeks looking at the boat in December.
We plan to sail across the Ionian Sea to Greece and then back up the western side of Italy to France, Spain etc and then get out of the territories before our time was up. I have just read the 3 pages of this thread and have seen glimmers of hope that the 90 day ruling may be each of the countries that I listed. Can anyone give a fresh update?

90 days is not indeed for each Schengen country; it is collectively. In normal (non-treaty) Schengen countries, you are allowed 90 out of any 180 days inside the Schengen area, and the other 90 days must be spent outside of the Schengen area.

The bilateral agreements discussed in this thread are exceptions to that rule based on earlier signed treaties.


As far as I know, all these treaties are still in effect, so you may be able to use them here or there. According to this: https://www.smartraveller.gov.au/bef...asics/schengen you've got one of these for Italy and Spain but not for France (oddly, as Americans have one for France) or Greece.

The way this normally works (you need to check and verify for yourself) is that you can stay on in one of these countries after your Schengen days are otherwise exhausted, provided you still have treaty days according to the rules of the treaty country. So for example you might stay 3 months in France, then if you go to Italy, you get another 60 or 90 days or whatever, and after that you can go to Spain, and you get yet another 60, 90 or whatever days.

Note well that it doesn't work the other way around!! So time in Italy and other treaty countries is still counted as Schengen days in non-treaty countries like France. So you CAN'T spend 3 months in Italy and then go to France. But you CAN spend 3 months in Italy, and then go to Spain.

And note that the whole South coast of the Med is non-Schengen, as is Cyprus and the East coast of the Adriatic except Croatia. Time in those countries does not count at all towards Schengen days, in any way. In fact 3 months in those countries resets the clock and you get another 90 Schengen days.

So I think with a little planning (and a lot of careful research) you should be fine. Just hit the non-treaty Schengen countries (like France and Greece) before you've been in Europe for 90 days, and spend the rest of the trip in treaty countries like Italy and Spain and non-Schengen countries. Or, if you want to linger for a while, spend a good bit of time in non-Schengen countries and reset the clock.

Note also that the location of the boat is irrelevant to this. It is only the location of the passport-holders. So you can also leave the boat somewhere in the Schengen zone for 3 months if you want and go somewhere non-Schengen, to reset the clock. Beware of VAT and customs rules, however, which DO affect the boat -- that's a separate discussion.

Do post about what you find out to help others on here. Good luck.


P.S. France does not appear to have a treaty with Oz, but France is one Schengen country where you can apply for a 6 months or year tourist visa, if you want to spend more time there than would be allowed under Schengen rules.

[Lisa Longshadow]

Dear Dockhead,

While I appreciate all your insight, my spouse spent several hours yesterday researching the ins/outs of Schengen...

As a US citizen with a US registered yacht, traveling in the Finland to France in spring of 2024, there is no way around the 90/180 rule for countries we plan to cruise in the following order:

Finland
Estonia
Latvia
Lithuania
Poland
Germany
Denmark
Sweden
Netherlands
Belgium
France

As I can see, the only saving grace for us is the 18 months the yacht can stay in these countries beofre having to head to either Russia or the UK?

We'd like to spend 1-2 years cruising the above countries, but it logistically is not practical to leave the Baltic/Northern Europe to swing around a non-Schengen flag pole every 90 days for 90 days?

Thoughts?

~Lisa

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Lisa Longshadow

Dear Dockhead,

While I appreciate all your insight, my spouse spent several hours yesterday researching the ins/outs of Schengen...

As a US citizen with a US registered yacht, traveling in the Finland to France in spring of 2024, there is no way around the 90/180 rule for countries we plan to cruise in the following order:

Finland
Estonia
Latvia
Lithuania
Poland
Germany
Denmark
Sweden
Netherlands
Belgium
France

As I can see, the only saving grace for us is the 18 months the yacht can stay in these countries beofre having to head to either Russia or the UK?

We'd like to spend 1-2 years cruising the above countries, but it logistically is not practical to leave the Baltic/Northern Europe to swing around a non-Schengen flag pole every 90 days for 90 days?

Thoughts?

~Lisa

You might be able to finagle something. The Nordic countries are treaty countries but all collectively 90/180, so if you start there then you will run out in 90 days and not be able to go to any non-treaty country. You could end there after spending 90 in non-treaty countries, but doesn't sound like your route.



BUT -- I think Poland may be a treaty country.



ALSO -- Estonia has an easy to get digital nomad visa. So you might be able to get one of those, spend some time in Estonia (worthwhile!), then carry on from there.


The digital nomad visa gives you up to a year in Estonia, and then 90/180 outside of Schengen anywhere. So your time in Estonia doesn't count anywhere, unlike time in a treaty country, if you have one of these. I don't know all the conditions so you'll have to do your own research.



Then Poland I think is a treaty country.


So you might be able to patch something together -- you'll just need to do the research.


Hint: once you have any kind of long term visa or residency permit (like I do) in a Schengen country, the policy as far as I know is to not check you at all, because it is fundamentally impossible. So if you have an Estonian digital nomad visa you might be home free -- which should not be construed as advice to break the rules.

[longtermcruiser]

We have been cruising this area for 20 years as US citizens utilizing the Scandinavian treaty.
If you are willing to spend 2 seasons, you might do something like this:
Cruise Finland thru Germany being sure that you spend less than 90 days. Sail to denmark and sweden (why not add a little of norway, it's a lovely cruising area). Be sure that your time in sweden/denmark/norway is less than 90 days less any time in finland. By this time you've used up the cruising season. Store the boat for the winter in Scandinavia, or sail to UK and stay aboard or store there for winter. You can stay 6 months in UK plus you reset the VAT clock. In spring use your 90 days to hit belgium, netherlands and france or beyond. Depending on your plans from there you might pop back up to UK for another winter or continue south.
A couple of caveats. If you finish the season in Scandinavia using the treaty you MUST leave from there when you check out of schengen, ie leave the boat in Denmark fly directly to US or Uk, not routed thru germany/netherlands.
Even in Scandinavia sometimes the immigration officials are unfamiliar with the rules so document your time.
All this could change when ETIAS starts.
.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by longtermcruiser

. . .
All this could change when ETIAS starts.
.

ETIAS will change a lot.


This is part of the "Secure Borders Package" which will start tracking visitors automatically and will replace physical passport stamps. This system will make it pretty much inevitable that you will be caught if you overstay, so the practice of winging it and hoping not to get caught will no longer give you even a chance.



AFAIK, this system does NOT track movements inside Schengen, but it DOES track you entering and leaving Schengen, and will flag overstays automatically.


This will also complicate using bilateral agreements. Apparently you will now have to actively apply for the benefits of these agreements, whereupon this information will be entered into the ETIAS system so you don't get flagged for an overstay.

[Lisa Longshadow]

If I have a Portuguese Retirement Visa, can I travel to other Schengen countries w/o the 90/180 restrictions?

For example, if I enter Portugal to start my initial Retirement Visa 1st year clock (and then planning to renew it twice, each time for two years, to a maximum of five years)...can I travel to France for 90 days, and then to Spain for 90 days, and then to Finland for 90 days, etc, etc,etc?

I hope that question is clear:-)

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Lisa Longshadow

If I have a Portuguese Retirement Visa, can I travel to other Schengen countries w/o the 90/180 restrictions?

For example, if I enter Portugal to start my initial Retirement Visa 1st year clock (and then planning to renew it twice, each time for two years, to a maximum of five years)...can I travel to France for 90 days, and then to Spain for 90 days, and then to Finland for 90 days, etc, etc,etc?

I hope that question is clear:-)

Check yourself, but I'm pretty sure you're limited to 90/180 in the rest of Schengen except if you are using a bilateral treaty.

In practice once you have residence rights somewhere in Schengen, the officials lose all interest in you. They don't track travel within Schengen.

ETIAS might change something about that.