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Old 24-06-2018, 09:35   #31
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Re: Scams in Greece

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Originally Posted by soares29 View Post
That’s not the point. I’m happy to pay as much as needed in any marina or charter company, but don’t want to be scammed.... simple like that. This don’t come here if you don’t want to get scammed mentality it’s what I see in socially underdeveloped places.
These aren't marinas and it's also not a charter company. Have you cruised in Greece? If the Port Authority is overtly allowing it, then it's not a scam, it's what that particular village quay has decided to allow.

I'm personally very bothered by the number of cruisers who complain about the relatively small amount of money it costs to use the village quays. No, they don't want to use an official receipt because all that happens is the money goes to Athens, not in the village. Greece has its own unique rhythm and once you understand it you appreciate it.

Can you explain the socially underdeveloped place comment also. If your talking about my comment, then it's not a place but a person. If your talking about the village, then you have no idea what your talking about. These are highly developed societies, way more than my home country.
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Old 25-06-2018, 07:21   #32
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Re: Scams in Greece

Occasionally someone asks me for a few euro - normally 5euro. I pay without fuss as I think of the 100 euro plus fees I was charged each night in Italy. Greece is oh so cheap!
Kalymnos charge fees officially - I paid 13 for 15.5m yacht.
Yanis is the guy in Kalymnos and he is extremely helpful. Will take your gas bottles away to get refilled and charge you only the price at the refill station. Sometimes another chap is there in a flouro jacket & I give him 5 euro
Greece is so cheap, so many port quays that charge absolutely nothing!
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Old 25-06-2018, 07:32   #33
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Re: Scams in Greece

The OP expressed frustration about being basically blindsided by a demand for a “fee” when no fee was stated up front. Rather than roast the OP for raising the subject, some helpful suggestions would be in order. Instead, several self righteous replies suggest that the cruiser should leave and that the locals would be happy about that. Interesting attitude. Seem to violate this forums’s “be nice” rule.

It isn’t about the amounts, which clearly are trivial. It is about the way they go about “offering to help”, then DEMANDING payment. Defending the practice only perpetuates the practice.

Would it not be better all around if those offering the “help” stated there r fee up front and avoid the confrontation afterward? Of course it would. So, the advise would be, ask up from if they intended to charge a fee for their help. Another advic is always stay in control of your own vessel. Don’t hand your lines someone else in a boat - ask them for a line that you can release at will.

This issue isn’t unique to Greece. We encountered in upon approaching Dominica in the West Indies. We were expecting it due to how well it was documented in the cruising guide, and we even took advantage of some other assistance. But we never handed our lines to another boat to be towed, and would never allow that. Good way to be run aground.
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Old 25-06-2018, 07:34   #34
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Re: Scams in Greece

Greece is introducing a tax on visiting yachts. I am sure there has been plenty on it here, although they don't seem to be charging it yet, probably because the Greek owners of big motor yachts do not like it.


As for Symi, a charge for taking your lines is only a minor cost. The real scam in Symi is the diver who looks for yachts with a small or elderly crew and then goes out at night to wrap a chain around your anchor chain. This happened to us last time we went to Symi, and it was quite obvious that it was not an accident or another yacht's chain. When we hauled the anchor up the chain wound round ours went down to the seabed both ways and just allowed our anchor to break the surface so that it could be seen.

We were being watched whilst we struggled and failed to disentangle ourselves. It was obvious we were being watched until we became desperate enough to pay an outrageous sum for a diver. Fortunately a fellow British sailor with a dinghy came to our aid and working from water level he was able to get the chain off once we had lowered the anchor a little.
In my opinion Symi Harbour is a place to avoid.
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Old 25-06-2018, 08:21   #35
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Re: Scams in Greece

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Mostly, I wouldn't let 10 euro spoil my trip. You paid 17 euro in total for a night in one of the busiest village harbors by size in all of the Aegean. It's a stunning view, great location, and the only harbor on the island.

It always makes me laugh when cruisers complain about being charged in Greece. Really, go somewhere else - and do so quickly.
Nice! He wasn't complaining about being charged, he was complaining about being ripped off. I suggest you go somewhere else...and do it quickly!
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Old 25-06-2018, 08:30   #36
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Re: Scams in Greece

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Originally Posted by NotCook View Post
The OP expressed frustration about being basically blindsided by a demand for a “fee” when no fee was stated up front. Rather than roast the OP for raising the subject, some helpful suggestions would be in order. Instead, several self righteous replies suggest that the cruiser should leave and that the locals would be happy about that. Interesting attitude. Seem to violate this forums’s “be nice” rule.
If the OP posted a simple question such as "IS this normal..?" "What have other people experienced...?" "What should I expect..?" "How would you handle such a situation..?"

However, the OP chose a much different, much more aggressive approach, slamming an entire country in the process and calling foul.

The OP set the tone, and was responded too in kind.
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Old 25-06-2018, 08:47   #37
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Re: Scams in Greece

Yes I saw more self righteousness on the other side.

Petty corruption is endemic to many cultures, and massive large scale corruption is universal.

Feel free to bang your head against brick walls, we all choose for ourselves where we draw the line, but my advice is go with the flow on the little stuff.
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Old 25-06-2018, 08:54   #38
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Re: Scams in Greece

In our cruises, if we could speak the local language we always asked if there was a fee for assistance; if unable to speak the language would politely demure any assistance. However, in the Gulf states its wise to pay someone to be your boat person throughout your stay. They can be invaluable and also will keep others away.
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Old 25-06-2018, 09:31   #39
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Re: Scams in Greece

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Originally Posted by Shrew View Post
If the OP posted a simple question such as "IS this normal..?" "What have other people experienced...?" "What should I expect..?" "How would you handle such a situation..?"

It is not normal to pay for handling lines in Greece and the OP seems to know this.
Almost all the time when you moor in Greece someone will come and help you, during my time I have never had anyone ask for money, if it happened and was actually legit you would get a very official looking receipt, no real receipt and it's a scam.
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Old 25-06-2018, 10:42   #40
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Re: Scams in Greece

I remember this happening in Greece 20 years ago, yachts stopped visiting thos ports, the restaurants started loosing money and they soon shifted these guys out of the harbour.
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Old 25-06-2018, 10:50   #41
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Re: Scams in Greece

I love reading this kind of threads that prove the old saying "it takes all kinds".
The bottom line is : if you don't want to get "scammed" in Greece, learn Greek. The same applies to other countries with some notable exceptions.. please do not tempt me to list them
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Old 25-06-2018, 11:25   #42
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Re: Scams in Greece

Quick thought in the subject. If line handlers offer you help and the charge around 12 Euro, that’s about one minute of work for 12 Euro. Doubles the price of the marina that night, halving the length of the cruise. And breaks out to be 720 Euro per hour of work. Which is an incredible charge.
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Old 25-06-2018, 13:52   #43
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Re: Scams in Greece

Dear Thomas,

My comment is what it is. I did not say that Greece or any of its villages is not socially well developed. What I mentioned is that areas that are not well developed foster individuals harassing tourists for cash. That’s not cool. If someone chooses to spend $100 or more in a queue overnight somewhere it’s their problem. What I don’t like is someone asking for $ that wasn’t agreed upon... I’m in Greece and totally love the place. The people are excellent sailors, very friendly, the food wonderful the area simply gorgeous and overall very affordable. My crew have not been harassed at all, quite the opposite. Cheers.
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Old 25-06-2018, 14:21   #44
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Re: Scams in Greece

Quote:
The OP expressed frustration about being basically blindsided by a demand for a “fee” when no fee was stated up front. Rather than roast the OP for raising the subject, some helpful suggestions would be in order. Instead, several self righteous replies suggest that the cruiser should leave and that the locals would be happy about that. Interesting attitude. Seem to violate this forums’s “be nice” rule.

It isn’t about the amounts, which clearly are trivial. It is about the way they go about “offering to help”, then DEMANDING payment. Defending the practice only perpetuates the practice.

Would it not be better all around if those offering the “help” stated there r fee up front and avoid the confrontation afterward? Of course it would. So, the advise would be, ask up from if they intended to charge a fee for their help. Another advic is always stay in control of your own vessel. Don’t hand your lines someone else in a boat - ask them for a line that you can release at will.

This issue isn’t unique to Greece. We encountered in upon approaching Dominica in the West Indies. We were expecting it due to how well it was documented in the cruising guide, and we even took advantage of some other assistance. But we never handed our lines to another boat to be towed, and would never allow that. Good way to be run aground.
I'm soooo tired of this poor me condescension toward a people whose country was decimated by good old American vulture/crisis capitalism that left this already poor country in forced debt with unending obligations. Don't begrudge your pocket change.
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Old 25-06-2018, 14:55   #45
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Re: Scams in Greece

Hard to understand..
If you think handling yr lines is expensive in Greece or they are intentionally scrambling yr anchor in some places, don't go to Greece.. If you think Turkish marinas are expensive but you still prefer to stay in marinas , don't go to Turkey. If you think that in Sicilly yr neighboring boats are stealing yr staff, don't go to Italy. If you think that the mooring balls are too expensive in Croatia, don't go to Croatia either. Do not cruise !! stay at home.. Or , if you find a place where none of these things are happening, pls let me know, I'll be there soon..

Cheers

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