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Old 20-06-2018, 14:27   #16
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Re: Scams in Greece

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Originally Posted by mrm View Post
Happened to me last year in Kalymnos. In my case the official fee for an overnight stay was 5 EUR (41 ft boat), paid to the harbour master (with a proper VAT receipt). Before he arrived, two guys requested another 5 EUR (total) for line handling.
Wow.. 5 Euro for a 41 ft boat or US$ 5,79 or US$ 0,14 per ft and then that horrible 2 boys who find a way to gain some money. If i where in your position i left this terrible country at ones. BTW i don't know who will be more happy if you leave, you or the Greece....
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Old 20-06-2018, 23:05   #17
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Re: Scams in Greece

Tricolor
You are missing the point.
No-one is objecting to paying the official fee whether it is euro 5, 15 or whatever. The problem is these self-appointed guys who turn up demanding money, often aggressively and sometimes threateningly.

The fact that these 'mooring men' don't provide tax receipts shows they are acting illegally and the money will not be declared for tax.
Greece is trying hard to cut tax evasion and be a responsible country. If you pay these guys you are contributing, in a small way, to corruption.
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Old 20-06-2018, 23:37   #18
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Re: Scams in Greece

Tricolor,

I also think you are missing the point. All these schemes like the self appointed mooring men do not help Greek economy.

Regards Luis
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Old 21-06-2018, 00:28   #19
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Re: Scams in Greece

@Hahser,
@Vladis,
Thanks folks, I provided factual info and refrained from commenting, although I support your point of view. In the interest of correctness, the official fee in Kalymnos was 10 EUR, not 5 as I previously wrote. Checked my expense spreadsheet and there was a contribution from another crew I originally missed.


Fair winds (and dockside people)
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Old 21-06-2018, 05:53   #20
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Re: Scams in Greece

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Originally Posted by Hahser View Post
Tricolor
You are missing the point.
No-one is objecting to paying the official fee whether it is euro 5, 15 or whatever. The problem is these self-appointed guys who turn up demanding money, often aggressively and sometimes threateningly.

The fact that these 'mooring men' don't provide tax receipts shows they are acting illegally and the money will not be declared for tax.
Greece is trying hard to cut tax evasion and be a responsible country. If you pay these guys you are contributing, in a small way, to corruption.
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Originally Posted by Vladis View Post
Tricolor,

I also think you are missing the point. All these schemes like the self appointed mooring men do not help Greek economy.

Regards Luis
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Originally Posted by mrm View Post
@Hahser,
@Vladis,
Thanks folks, I provided factual info and refrained from commenting, although I support your point of view. In the interest of correctness, the official fee in Kalymnos was 10 EUR, not 5 as I previously wrote. Checked my expense spreadsheet and there was a contribution from another crew I originally missed.


Fair winds (and dockside people)
To call this "Scams in Greece" suggests something really happened.. you can give these boys money or NOT. BUT SCAM.!!!!!

Every where in the poor part of the world you find these boys, in Brazil they want to help you park your car or try to sell you something or play a circus act when the traffic light is red.. I always give them a few coins, these are my standards and i don't cal them scams....

But be happy over there, its cheap hŤ.. My advice.. if it feels like scam LEAVE and most Greece will be happy that you left, they are to proud to accept that tourists call them scams.....

My 2 Centavos
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Old 21-06-2018, 06:27   #21
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Re: Scams in Greece

Through giving a tip to someone who helps with the lines , is a nice gesture .
Greece is full of scam in some places more than others and I tell you that as a Greek, the usual behaviour of the tourists "it's still so cheap so who cares " just makes the problems worst , and takes a big effect on our quality of services and hospitality.

Greece still an amazing place to sail , but it becomes worse and worse as the time pass .

P.S just an example : there is a harbour in my island that is used mostly for J24 races and when there is no race is empty , a lot of cruisers use that harbour to visit the island or get water and provisions , the water , electricity and mooring in that harbour is FREE OF CHARGE , since the club wants it that way , there 2 people who are charging the coming boats (not mine since I am local ) 10 euros per day and another 5 for water and electricity. Most yachts pay the bill to avoid trouble but you really think this is fair ??? It would be far better if those money where donated to the club ,who actually owns the port .
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Old 22-06-2018, 02:33   #22
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Re: Scams in Greece

All the commenters saying that rich boat owners should not cry poor over paying a tip to local marina boys miss the basic point.

It is not the money that is the issue.

IT IS NOT THE MONEY THAT IS THE ISSUE!!!

This is a scam. The providing of unasked for and unneeded "services" with a subsequent intimidating demand for payment which preys on the naivety and good manners of a guest to a country is a scam, is insulting, and is bad for business.

There are one-hundred-and-one services I would happily pay for from an unemployed local, and which could be provided easily and without significant skills, training, or investment - some examples - hull or deck cleaning, sail repair and cleaning, winch or engine servicing, splicing and finishing lines, refilling of gas bottles, morning fresh bread delivery, etc..

But I absolutely refuse to be pressured into paying for ******** unasked-for services. And for anyone to accept this bullshittery only encourages further bad behavior - which ends up looking like the sorts of locations where when you don't pay the local kids to "mind your dinghy" you return to it with a series of 8 1 inch knife holes along the waterline (as its previous owner found out).

When you accept, tolerate, and reward bad behavior you can only expect that it will continue and deteriorate. Making the situation worse for everyone who follows you.

Far better to encourage and reward industrious activities which improve the situation of all involved in a sustainable way.
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Old 22-06-2018, 11:25   #23
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Scams in Greece

It would be an issue for me. I donít want to pay anyone to help me dock. If I need help Iíll find it and Iíll pay for it but if I could get it for free, even better.

Sorry, I am not the world bank.
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Old 22-06-2018, 11:43   #24
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Re: Scams in Greece

They offered to handle lines. You accepted the assistance. When they ask for payment for services rendered you cry foul and vilify an entire nation.

Why would you expect service for free?

If a dockhand at any dock provides assistance with lines while arriving or departing I expect they deserve something. Everyone is entitled to make a living. You've come into their town, accepted service and are appalled that they're trying to make a living.

You should ask them if they expect payment prior to accepting assistance, and either accept or deny services. Doing so after the fact and then crying foul is in poor taste.

If it's not about the money, then why spend so much time trying to convince people it's a scam. Scams are ONLY about money.
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Old 22-06-2018, 11:45   #25
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Re: Scams in Greece

Big difference to me also between choosing to give a tip and someone demanding money for services I didn't ask for. And any threatening or even rude behavior should be reported and strongly discouraged.
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Old 22-06-2018, 11:52   #26
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Re: Scams in Greece

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Big difference to me also between choosing to give a tip and someone demanding money for services I didn't ask for. And any threatening or even rude behavior should be reported and strongly discouraged.
That's not what the OP reported. He came into port and someone started assisting with lines. He accepted assistance and then was asked to pay a fee.

There's no report that he was threatened and nobody forced him to throw his lines to a stranger. I venture a strong guess that this guy looked more like a yard/dockworker and less like a yachtie.
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Old 22-06-2018, 22:05   #27
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Re: Scams in Greece

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Originally Posted by Shrew View Post
That's not what the OP reported. He came into port and someone started assisting with lines. He accepted assistance and then was asked to pay a fee.

There's no report that he was threatened and nobody forced him to throw his lines to a stranger. I venture a strong guess that this guy looked more like a yard/dockworker and less like a yachtie.
Hello,

I sail in Greece for almost 3 years, 4 months per year. In 90% of the times when I approach a quay there are people (either neibouring sailors, passing people, officials,...) that are willing to help. And in 99% of the cases when I say "Thank You" they say "You are welcome". The 1% that ask me to pay their help happened this month as I wrote earlier.

Now to Tricolor - in the city where I live we had car parking helpers demanding a tip for the help. The city mayor changed that 10 years ago by integrating them in the municipality. We still have them. But now they have a job and a salary. Much better.

Regards Luis
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Old 22-06-2018, 22:38   #28
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Re: Scams in Greece

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Mostly, I wouldn't let 10 euro spoil my trip. You paid 17 euro in total for a night in one of the busiest village harbors by size in all of the Aegean. It's a stunning view, great location, and the only harbor on the island.

It always makes me laugh when cruisers complain about being charged in Greece. Really, go somewhere else - and do so quickly.


Thatís not the point. Iím happy to pay as much as needed in any marina or charter company, but donít want to be scammed.... simple like that. This donít come here if you donít want to get scammed mentality itís what I see in socially underdeveloped places.
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Old 23-06-2018, 04:24   #29
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Re: Scams in Greece

OMG

If you are going to get all theoretical-principled about such low-level "corruption" you will die an early death from all the stress travelling around the world.

Only a small number of very wealthy countries avoid these petty schemes.

The low-level "scammers" give a cut to the mafia police or army or whatever gov officials whose territory they operate in.

Some places you will find the full force of the corrupt law used against you if you don't compromise a bit, get with the program.

You need street smarts to avoid the **big and powerful** scammers with real power, be flexible, get advice from local foreigners.

Don't get up on your high horse about petty thievery like this, and accept you're always getting "overcharged" compared to the locals, unless you know the language and live there a while.
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Old 23-06-2018, 04:25   #30
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Re: Scams in Greece

And BTW even Switzerland and Singapore have plenty of corruption, they're just more sophisticated and discreet about it.
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