New taxes in Greece

[john61ct]

This:

Originally Posted by kas_1611

Greek harbourmasters/Customs/Port Police have been saying "don't pay it"

[letsgetsailing3]

Originally Posted by kas_1611

The Link comes up with the Greek for "The page you requested could not be found"

Which kind of confirms what the CA had said recently that the online payment system was not functioning. Advice so far has been to not register or pay anything until such time as the e-payment is available. Even the Greek harbourmasters/Customs/Port Police have been saying "don't pay it"

This, of course, is why Greece is in such financial trouble. Even (or especially) the wealthy don't want to pay taxes

Everyone there feels like an idiot if they pay any taxes, because they feel like nobody else is, and any politician or government who wants to collect taxes is very unpopular.

Very difficult to fix.

[MartinR]

Originally Posted by letsgetsailing3

This, of course, is why Greece is in such financial trouble. Even (or especially) the wealthy don't want to pay taxes

Everyone there feels like an idiot if they pay any taxes, because they feel like nobody else is, and any politician or government who wants to collect taxes is very unpopular.

Very difficult to fix.

Actually, nobody wants to pay taxes.This is not restricted to Greece.

Greeks are very good at not paying taxes, though

Maybe because the government is so bad at organising and enforcing.

[gmakhs]

There is a very simple way to enforce or convince Greeks to pay taxes, but our governments are not that clever .
Eventually someone with balls will come on power and start fixing things until then Greece will suffer .
Another way would be people to stop.waiting for government guidance and start doing things to improve their life but older generations have been spoiled new generations feel lost .
Hope my country will get better in my lifetime and maybe I will get back there not before we start respecting our own constitution though .
P.S a big problem.for.greece now is how Europe union works as well, Europe u non reminds me the Athenian union back in ancient Greece (for those who know history) but that's a.long conversation.



Democracy born and died in Greece, unfortunately and people haven't realize yet .

[MartinR]

Originally Posted by gmakhs

There is a very simple way to enforce or convince Greeks to pay taxes, but our governments are not that clever .
Eventually someone with balls will come on power and start fixing things until then Greece will suffer .
Another way would be people to stop.waiting for government guidance and start doing things to improve their life but older generations have been spoiled new generations feel lost .
Hope my country will get better in my lifetime and maybe I will get back there not before we start respecting our own constitution though .
P.S a big problem.for.greece now is how Europe union works as well, Europe u non reminds me the Athenian union back in ancient Greece (for those who know history) but that's a.long conversation.



Democracy born and died in Greece, unfortunately and people haven't realize yet .

You are completely right. The EU and especially the Euro is a big factor in the economic problems. Not everything can be blamed on Greece. I love the country and the people.

Not the authorities, though.

Anyhow, it seems the payment system is online now, only 5 years to implement;-)

[gmakhs]

I really believe the tax will be adjusted or cancelled next year with the new government .

[letsgetsailing3]

Originally Posted by gmakhs

I really believe the tax will be adjusted or cancelled next year with the new government .

Sort of reminds me of the movie "Office Space", where the guy says "I don't like my job, and I don't think I'm gonna go any more", except it's taxes, and the Greeks never quite accepted the idea, mostly because they don't think anyone else is going to pay them.

[Jenneau Owner]

Have heard from several people who have attempted to register and pay this ill thought out tax. They have all failed and given up!

One got as far as registering but could not find a bank who would accept the payment.

Personaly I would wait and see what develops.

[yeloya]

Just a kindly reminder;


-this thread is not meant to discuss "how disorgonised, uneffective Greek government in collecting taxes, why they fell into financial troubles, is this tax is fair or not, etc"
-everyone who spend some time in Greek waters will know that they attempted to implement various taxes several times and it didn't work. This doesn't mean that this time also will not work, it may or not.
-another fact is that in every corner of the country, even in different islands very close to each other, the authorities had different approaches. If one harbour master has said "don't pay", it doesn't mean that all other harbour masters will say the same.
-finally, in various occasion (not limited to this tax only) the authorities are definately more keen on checking the boats, chasing for illegal charter , etc. This is for Dodocanese islands, Cyclades or Ionian ports may well behave differently.


The fines are hefty and every one will have to decide on his own what to do or not to do..


Cheers


Yeloya

[Palarran]

The tax is about 1,470 euro per year for Palarran. When I first went to Greece in 2012 the tax for a non-EU flagged boat was 1,200 euro. I don't think it's too much to pay for all the infrastructure involved in cruising Greece.

[kas_1611]

Originally Posted by Palarran

The tax is about 1,470 euro per year for Palarran. When I first went to Greece in 2012 the tax for a non-EU flagged boat was 1,200 euro. I don't think it's too much to pay for all the infrastructure involved in cruising Greece.

Black Gold just crosses the 12m threshold but still it is only €98.80 per month she's in the water. As we haul out at Preveza she's automatically "out of use" as well.

All things considered it isn't that much really although it is annoying there is such a big jump from 11.99 to 12.01m, particularly when we are 11.99m LWL but 12.35m LOA. Another step in the charge, say 12 to 15m, would have been fairer as a 40ft yacht is not a big boat these days but hey ho.

And Palarran is correct it isn't much to pay to support the infrastructure we all make use of when sailing around Greece, which is well maintained on the whole.

Tax is one of the constants of life, like Death, you can't avoid it forever

[MartinR]

For me it is slightly annoying, too, as my boat is long and very narrow;-). But on the whole, it is not too expensive. My boat is out of service now, so no payment required for this month.

I will pay it in time, as the fines are hefty.

The smarter way to go would have been to increase the port fees in Greece, which are ridiculously cheap in many places, and make sure they are actually collected.

[Palarran]

Originally Posted by MartinR

The smarter way to go would have been to increase the port fees in Greece, which are ridiculously cheap in many places, and make sure they are actually collected.

Without a doubt a much better plan, though those who only anchor still use some of the infrastructure, such as trash removal. The port authority didn't want anything to do with this program, or my transit log, when I was there. But there were quite a few of them standing around doing absolutely zero all day except pushing paper between each other. So they might as well collect a few euros.

[karabil]

we fly back to Athens in 2 weeks, cant wait as Muscade has been on the dry since August 2017. Will let you know once we collect our papers from port police.

[Van Der Beek]

Originally Posted by atoll

no that was the repayment to greece by the germans for reparations incurred during the 2nd world war which was never totally paid back with a shortfall of about 290 billion euros.

namely when the german army occupied greece,destroyed the country,and persuaded the greek government to loan their entire gold reserve of about 100 billion euros at the time, at 0% interest to the german state as a payment for services rendered by the german occupation forces in 1942.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II_reparations

current greek debt to the eu is about 389 billion euros mostly held by german banks
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_...nt-debt_crisis

Speaking of destruction....

When are the Poles and Russians gonna give Germany back Eastern Germany (that which was called Eastern Germany after the war was *Central Germany) that the Poles and Russians stole AFTER the war, after first having ethnically cleansed 14 million Germans from their ancestral lands? (a cleansing which took place between 1945 and 1955) And, when are the French gonna give back Eisass-Lothrigen.

Which Greek infrastructure and industry did the German army destroy in Greece?

As an aside, for our American readers, what was done to Germany after the war, would be like taking all 16 Southern states, yes ALL of them, and ethnically cleanse those of Southerners, then give all those 16 Southern states (starting with Maryland, down to Virginia, over to west Virginia, down to Kentucky all the way down to Texas) to Mexico! Which would mean you would lose 350 years of your history, and lose your heart lands, that is to say, your most important lands.

Well....the Germans lost close to a 1000 years of their history and their heartlands with the theft of *Eastern Germany after the war. Now take a map of the United States of America and remove all 16 Southern states, it should help to elevate your thinking.

It's about time the demonization and bitching and moaning of the Germans ceased, more so if you are English, in which case you are in NO position what so ever to morally lecture any other ethnicity within our white race (oh, the same holds true if you're French) Full stop. End of.

For your information I'm not German.



Fast forward to present day....

You do understand that Germany is paying for the upkeep of the lesser European nations, right? Truth is lesser nations are leeching off of Germany, not the other way around. Germany drives the entire continent. Perhaps unwise to bite the hand that feeds you?

Originally Posted by kas_1611

I for one have zero problem with a sovereign state applying any such fees or taxation to provide financial support to their economy and infrastructure.

They can implement what ever tax they want, of course. Any sovereign nation state can, it is sovereign after all.