New taxes in Greece

[Pete7]

Originally Posted by davefrediam

Hi everyone

Having never had to pay for a cruising permit can someone clarify some scenarios for me?

Dave, add to the fact that we will be johnnie foreigners in a weeks time, I wouldn't rush this year. Let them sort it all out. After all you don't want to be the first mouse to the cheese on the trap, coming second has benefits.

Pete

[CatNewBee]

Originally Posted by davefrediam

Hi everyone

Having never had to pay for a cruising permit can someone clarify some scenarios for me?
So if you dont plan to stop in Greece but are just passing through, does this mean you now have to pull into a major Greek port to pay for a month, even if you would only have been passing through their waters for a few hours?

Also if you stray into their territorial waters without noticing but they pick it up because of your AIS transponder could you find a huge fine coming through your letterbox some time afterwards?

Thanks In Advance

Dave

If you transit, you do not need to clear in, if possible stay away from the coastal zone. But if you anchor over night near shore or want to go to shore, you have to clear in, and then you have to pay and make all the necessary procedures. Some countries are different, especially Croatia. They require you to go to the nearest port when entering and check in, when leaving - immediately leave their waters after clear out (because they want to make most of the cruising and lighthouse fees for a whole year once you enter, and the tourist taxes). Other countries are more relaxed.

Regarding Greece, I guess they will fine you directly, too much paperwork for send you an invoice home. I am pretty sure AIS is not monitored in conjunction to the tax status, they are unable to organize tax collection, to have an integrated system that shows your tax status would be science fiction there. But if you are boarded by coast guard and you cannot show your dekpa / tax payment, they may fine you directly, get your papers and keep them until you pay.

[Liburnian]

The monthly tax for 9m boat is less than a lunch in your countries (you're not on food stamps?)! And much less like in Croatia, which is overcrowded with nautic tourists.

Please, stop moralizing about Greek debt and financial crisis without any coprehensive insight. German banks (according to German newspapers like Süddeuche Zeutung and FAZ) profited around 3 billions euros + privatization of vast infrastructure (ports...). Financial "help" was mainly given to the French and German banks to cover the losses, because of iratonal loans to the past Greek governments. The bank's money surplus was for decades long simply dissipated around, from financing corrupt governments to the mortgages. Deutsche Bank is now one of the most sickly banks in Europe. Not because of Greece, but because their well known financial policy.

Please don't patronize foreign countries and treat the people in colonialist way, as stupid, lazy etc. You're not much better or clever: look at Trump, brexit, not to mention how I've never heard you complaining for giving taxes to kill millions around the world.
Sorry to bother you.

[boatman61]

Have transitted Greece from Turkey to Malta without clearing in.. including passing through the Corinth Canal at 0100 then anchoring and grabbing some sleep on the other side..
Vessel in Transit.

[letsgetsailing3]

In the big scheme of things, this isn't really all that expensive.


If I wanted to cruise in Greece, I'd just pay it at the first marina I stopped at and not worry about it too much. One month is less than a decent dinner. It wouldn't stop me from cruising in Greece.

[CatNewBee]

Originally Posted by letsgetsailing3

In the big scheme of things, this isn't really all that expensive.


If I wanted to cruise in Greece, I'd just pay it at the first marina I stopped at and not worry about it too much. One month is less than a decent dinner. It wouldn't stop me from cruising in Greece.

You need the dekpa document anyway, you get it on first clear in in the country ( if they have the form available).

[hellosailor]

In Greece it is apparently a matter of manhood and national pride to pay no taxes. And the Greek government has been rather upset by the way this prevents them from collecting revenue and running a country. So...yes, they are getting more aggressive about trying to collect taxes. Or at least, they are claiming to be.

[letsgetsailing3]

Originally Posted by hellosailor

In Greece it is apparently a matter of manhood and national pride to pay no taxes. And the Greek government has been rather upset by the way this prevents them from collecting revenue and running a country. So...yes, they are getting more aggressive about trying to collect taxes. Or at least, they are claiming to be.

That's partially because the wealthy famously get away without paying them there, and so the common man feels that they shouldn't, either.

At one time ( I don't know if they still do) they taxed swimming pools, and only 324 people claimed one, out of the over 16,000 known to be there.

At least this tax seems reasonable enough for people to pay it, though I'm sure that a few will refuse to.

I hope they're able to clean up their act.

[hellosailor]

Swimming pools.(G) Yes, I think it was the early 90's when a couple of the neighboring counties decided to buy some aerial photography. Then they sat down and sent out tax bills to every address where they saw a swimming pool. Incredible how people just forget to mention they've installed one. Or an addition, or a shed, or all the little things that change taxes. In the US it is popular to park in your driveway--so the untaxed garage can be used as a room. But from what I've heard, the Greeks and Argentines are the most "professional" players at the tax denial game.
I'd just put some goldfish in the swimming pool and insist it was a koi pond, and ask for an agricultural land use exemption.(G)

[CatNewBee]

They have lots of problems with bush fires, it is a pond for off-grid fire fighting and a water cistern to collect and store rain water for the garden in hot summers. Of course they have to inspect it daily by diving in, to make sure that everything is OK.

[yeloya]

Originally Posted by hellosailor

But from what I've heard, the Greeks and Argentines are the most "professional" players at the tax denial game.
(G)

Well,Turks are not bad either in this game..

Our agent in Rhodes had told me that the government finally recognised the fact that they were not good in collecting the taxes and they are now outsourcing this service. They contracted the job to private companies who are getting a certain commission on the tax that they are collecting for the government and they are pretty effective. Thanks God, this system has not yet been implemented in the ports or marine traffic, but it's coming.
While she was in Turkey, one british flagged boat had posted in facebook something like "let's meet somewhere in Greece" , not directly calling for charter but possibly implying it. Greek tax office has somehow saw it and sent to him 5.000 € fine for "attemting illegal chartering in Greece" . They also said that if he doesn't pay the fine and cought in Greek waters, his boat could have been confiscated..

Cheers

Yeloya

[gmakhs]

Marine traffic won't work without AIS

[Jenneau Owner]

Today 26/03 visited Port Police to have my DEPKA stamped. Took five mins and NO MENTION of any taxes etc. ��

[kas_1611]

Originally Posted by Jenneau Owner

Today 26/03 visited Port Police to have my DEPKA stamped. Took five mins and NO MENTION of any taxes etc. ��

Probably because it isn't due into effect until 2nd April

[Nicholson58]

Originally Posted by Jenneau Owner

I return to Greece this Fri 23/03 and dreading going to the port police.☹️

If the Greek authorities had any commercial sense they could easily collect their much needed revenue in a better way.

Greek waters are full of boats that are FULL OF PEOPLE.

Charging a boat with two people on board a large amount of money whilst yachts and catamarans are cruising around with 8/12 people on board is a nonsense.

A web site for registration per person for a one or twelve month period could easily be set up. Owners and charter companies should then be responsible to ensure the “Cruissing Tax” has been paid.

Far more income raised and at less expense to all.

I have always hated the charge by the length formula. We are 17.5 meters so this hole in the water rate gets big. Consider also that it is monthly. This places it far above the annual $300 for the Bahamas.

The state administered docks in Michigan where we lived for years finally started charging for the slip you required regardless of your length. They don’t charge large, fat people more for a drivers license. Are the entry fees at their airports greater for fatsos?

Michigan also has a sliding water use tax based on length. Fees for typical small boats were 7 to 15 dollars for a three year tag but our tag was $450. The reasoning was that bigger boats caused greater wear on the boat launch facilities. This makes no sense for cruising boats that cannot get within 100 meters of a launch and can’t be trailered and that also dock in private marinas. There are thousands of times more small boats. Flattening the fees and raising by a dollar would increase total revenue while being hardly noticed. Sliding rate taxes are punitive and a deterrent to boat ownership and to the entire industry. In the case of Greece, this will deter many from visiting, especially the larger, more open ocean capable boats. Greece will not bail itself out of debt by deterring visitors.