Med cruising and managing Schengen

[boatman61]

Another point to remember..
Dockhead refers to freely moving through internal borders within Schengen without border checks..
This is true.. however as cruisers you are not traveling through internal borders.. you are in fact repeatedly coming to EXTERNAL BORDERS.. unless your using the canal/river system.

[Yofy]

With a passport other than Israeli maybe.. just maybe.. but in that part of the world playing a passport game is going to be a dangerous game methinks.

Actually, in Greece, an Israeli passport is no problem. Never had an issue and always greeted with smiles.

I believe they are talking about getting around the 90 day rule for themselves.. not the 18 months rule for the boat.

Yes we are. We have no problem taking the boat out of Schengen to say Albania, for a short time, but not for 90 days .

[boatman61]

I was referring to the more common Greece escape.. Turkey.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by Yofy

Actually, in Greece, an Israeli passport is no problem. Never had an issue and always greeted with smiles.


Yes we are. We have no problem taking the boat out of Schengen to say Albania, for a short time, but not for 90 days .

Sailing in and out might work (wouldn't count on it though).

Flying...the manifests are all electronic and you have to clear immigration at the airport where they scan your documents. I have little doubt they can cross reference based on your name and probably know before you even take off.

[Dauntlessny]

Originally Posted by ReneJK

theoretically, yes , Idont see why you cant do the following



check in on your 1 passport , (get it stamped) stay 90 days and check out (get it stamped) spend a day outside schengen , take your other passport and check in (get it stamped) stay another 90 days .. and check out (get it stamped) thats 180 days total ..

I could see this working also, HOWEVER, Boatman is absolutely correct.
So, if at the border, as you leave, no problem, but as you enter, IF they do cross check and discover you are the same person, you run the risk that at best, they don't let you enter for 90 days or ay worst, ban you from all Schengen countries for three years.
Won't matter that your boat is waiting for you.

Whatever you do. Do not do any of these border crossings at an airport.

Also southern Europe seems far more bureaucratic than northern Europe.
That may make out harder.

[aquadreams]

I can tell this is going to be fun for us. We plan on buying a boat in 2020 and starting in the Med. I've got US passport, wife has UK and Aus, and by then probably also US. She's currently working in Germany and will continue working beyond 2020 whereas I'll be retired. At this point don't know if she continue working in Germany or be working back in the States. Either way, I'll have the 90 days out of 180 issue, and she likely won't. Stupid Brexit will complicate things but if she keeps working in Germany she's likely ok.

From reading this discussion, we'll probably put the boat on the hard in a non-schengen country during the winter, and I'll go back to the states to do upkeep on our rentals properties and visit family.

Any suggestions or insight?

It's all part of the planning process :-)

Cheers,
Joe

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by aquadreams

I can tell this is going to be fun for us. We plan on buying a boat in 2020 and starting in the Med. I've got US passport, wife has UK and Aus, and by then probably also US. She's currently working in Germany and will continue working beyond 2020 whereas I'll be retired. At this point don't know if she continue working in Germany or be working back in the States. Either way, I'll have the 90 days out of 180 issue, and she likely won't. Stupid Brexit will complicate things but if she keeps working in Germany she's likely ok.

From reading this discussion, we'll probably put the boat on the hard in a non-schengen country during the winter, and I'll go back to the states to do upkeep on our rentals properties and visit family.

Any suggestions or insight?

It's all part of the planning process :-)

Cheers,
Joe

Brexit is anyones guess 2-3yrs out but based on current rules...

She will be able to stay as long as she likes but if they tie her to the ownership of the boat and she is still a resident of Germany, you need to pay VAT (or buy a VAT paid boat).

You aren't supposed to have EU residents cruising on a non-VAT paid boat, so putting the boat under your name is still problematic. A stray EU resident as a guest for a couple hour day trip, you can probably talk the official around it but if it's your wife, that's going to be a tough sell.

Depending on the Brexit fallout, I'm guessing you can get a UK residency as the husband of a UK citizen. Not sure about the tax and other implications but that would get you around the 90 day rule.

[Dockhead]

You're going to need to pay vat on the boat or bring it in as household moving to the eu, if that can be made applicable. That's your biggest problem.

Schengen should be solvable as the husband of an eu citizen working in Germany. That's a valid basis for getting a residence permit AFAIK. After brexit she will have to have one herself, but normally you get to bring your family along.

Why in the world would a person with a UK passport want a US one? She will be subject to US taxation on her worldwide income and will have to make US tax returns and FATCA filings for the rest of her life even if she never sets foot again in the States. It's a curse!

[aquadreams]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

Why in the world would a person with a UK passport want a US one? She will be subject to US taxation on her worldwide income and will have to make US tax returns and FATCA filings for the rest of her life even if she never sets foot again in the States. It's a curse!

To claim the social security and medicare benefits that she's paid into for the past 20+ years. She either has to become US citizen or she has to maintain her green card, which would mean having to live 6 months of the year in the states, something we don't plan to do.

Believe me, we know about the curse of being taxed on worldwide income and having to file FACTA. Been doing that already. I'm looking forward to the US getting rid of worldwide income taxation at some point, fingers crossed that the lobbyists for the 1% will make that happen at some point.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

Why in the world would a person with a UK passport want a US one? She will be subject to US taxation on her worldwide income and will have to make US tax returns and FATCA filings for the rest of her life even if she never sets foot again in the States. It's a curse!

Unless you are really high income, this issue is overblown.

There is some documentation and reporting complications but approx the first $100k in income is tax free if you are not living in the USA.

Now if she is making $250k/yr in Germany, it's a valid point but if she's making $75k/yr, it's a paperwork hassle and nothing more.

[Tricolor]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

...........Why in the world would a person with a UK passport want a US one? She will be subject to US taxation on her worldwide income and will have to make US tax returns and FATCA filings for the rest of her life even if she never sets foot again in the States. It's a curse!

Its even worth, look at Donald Trump's new Toll Tax..! And for Unwanted Americans living in The Netherlands there is no escape, In 2010 The Netherlands signed the FATCA agreement with US.

Don't think that you can just give your US Passport back, this will cost you thousands of Dollars.

Think twice....

[MartinR]

Not sure, but I guess, your name and birth date is in the computer system and probably a warning flag will come up when you try to re-enter, even with a different passport.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by valhalla360

Unless you are really high income, this issue is overblown.

There is some documentation and reporting complications but approx the first $100k in income is tax free if you are not living in the USA.

Now if she is making $250k/yr in Germany, it's a valid point but if she's making $75k/yr, it's a paperwork hassle and nothing more.

Only EARNED income is excluded, that is, salary. If you have investments, you're screwed. Or self employment income, or royalty income, etc. etc.

The reporting is extremely burdensome, with huge penalties for small mistakes ($10,000 per single bank account or financial asset you forget to report; $50,000 or confiscation if you don't report after a notice is sent to you which people travelling usually don't get; etc. etc. etc. etc.) but also for any BANK you are dealing with -- so people with a U.S. passport are already extremely unwelcome in most European banks.

The person asking about this has already made an informed decision, so this isn't really relevant to anything, but a U.S. passport is an awful liability. I would give my eye tooth for a U.K. one.

[aquadreams]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

Only EARNED income is excluded, that is, salary. If you have investments, you're screwed. Or self employment income, or royalty income, etc. etc.

The reporting is extremely burdensome, with huge penalties for small mistakes ($10,000 per single bank account or financial asset you forget to report; $50,000 or confiscation if you don't report after a notice is sent to you which people travelling usually don't get; etc. etc. etc. etc.) but also for any BANK you are dealing with -- so people with a U.S. passport are already extremely unwelcome in most European banks.

The person asking about this has already made an informed decision, so this isn't really relevant to anything, but a U.S. passport is an awful liability. I would give my eye tooth for a U.K. one.

Thanks Dockhead,

Not meaning to derail the thread topic of Managing Schengen, but I'll respond...

We've been filing the FATCA forms to report our foreign bank accounts already, due to my wife having a permanent resident card. Not too bad but you're right, the penalties are insanely high. They basically will confiscate the whole account if you don't file properly.

I agree, would love to have a UK or Aus vs US passport or anywhere that doesn't tax global income the way the US does. But for us it's a tradeoff of the positive of my wife being able to collect social security pension and health care benefits vs the negative having to file and pay taxes to the US on global income even when no longer living in the states.


Happy sailing!
Joe

[Anders]

Since she is a UK citizen she can receive her US social security payments when she is outside the US.