Long term cruising questions

[Dauntlessny]

Umm, where to start.

Not a bad plan. As others have already pointed out a number of the challenges. A few thoughts come to mind:
1. Schengen is an issue, but not an insurmountable one. Your wife speaking Italian and Spanish will certainly help. You can get one year VISA for Spain and while it is only good for Spain, no one rally checks and if they do, go to the next town and they probably won't.

2. I too looked at Dutch boats in my early phase. They are well suited for what you want to do.

Watch the size though, you will want something with an air draft not greater than 3.5 meters and a draft NGT 1.5m.
Also length, I think you need to stay below 14.3m? in length, otherwise you have a multitude of license issues in various countries. Check what that length is.

3. Weather. Yes, the Med is much like western Oregon in the winter. But there are plenty of folks who winter over on their boats in the southern areas, north Africa and Turkey and Greece.

If you did not go the one year route for VISA, then the idea of wintering in Turkey is not a bad idea.

Check out Jim at JimB Sail | Helping Skippers plan European Cruises

Good Luck and don't be discouraged.

Richard on Dauntless in Ireland

[SouthernPride]

Get two dogs the breed and color. Same name for both. Leave one here and one over there. They will be happier.

How would feel in the cargo hold of a jet at 40,000 feet in 30 degree's for 8 hours.

[Scaramanga F25]

I have chartered canal boats in the UK and France. Loved it.
Be aware that southern canals such as the Canal du Midi close in winter for maintenance. Called Periodes de chomage.
Near freezing at night and 55*F during the day.

[athene]

Well, we divide our time between sailing in the Med in our Oyster 435 sailing ketch, Athene of Lymington, and cruising the inland waterways in our Nowee 38, Cheyenne of Lymington.

In the sailing yacht we've cruised from Gibraltar to Turkey and all countries in between. In the Nowee (Dutch steel motor yacht, single engined) we're currently on the French inland waterways.

This is by way of saying that we've experienced both kinds of sailing in both kinds of boat and I wouldn't want to do either form of cruising in the other boat. In fact, we've met a number of cruisers in similar motor yachts to the kind you're considering who, having tried them out in the open waters of the Mediterranean, have returned to the inland waterways. Few motor yachts are very comfortable in Med conditions once the winds get up above force 3-4, whereas a sailing yacht revels in such conditions.

Not that I wish to throw a spanner in your works, but a Dutch steel-built motor yacht is IMHO more suited to the inland waterways - where a single engine is perfectly adequate and, indeed, preferable for mooring alongside in the canals.

Anyway, you've got a year to consider your options, so put this in the pot and stir it along with the other suggestions.

GORDON KNIGHT

[barnakiel]

I think your plan sounds 100% bombproof and it all will work for you EXCEPT for the weather dream.

I, for one, simply do not see much nice weather anywhere in Europe nor Med in the winter. And N Europe can get a nice summer now and then but is normally way worse even than Med winter!

Keep on dreaming. Hail and high winds in Greece in the winter or rather in July in London? I could not care less.

Florida, man, only Florida!

I am spoiled, we have been living in Canary Islands when not at sea.

;-)
b.

[Manos1955]

Spend almost all my life sailing East Med . Winter you should sail south East Cyprus or Israel even Egypt if situation improves. There it is warm in December January you will.have like 70-80s
Summer you sail North East Med Greece (Northern Greece is the Best weather and best Anchorages / ports For FREE yes you pay nothing NADA . Or even Northern Med like Albania Montenegro Croatia Italy. I don't suggest it very expensive
You can hope between Turkey and Greece to avoid violating the maximum stay, it's nothing illegal and thousands of sailors are doing this so no problema there.
Dogs cats pets No Problem Best food in most places and people like pets both in Greece and Turkey, two countries that you will spend most of the time
It is better to have a sailboat and motor instead of a slow moving motor boat. Weather changes fast and a slow motorboat cannot take the Med weather as a sailboat can
If you have a fast motorboat with the associate expenses then you can run away but a slow moving motor boat forget it
Come back with as many questions as you like , I will be happy to answer them all
Cheers

[Myknjul]

Originally Posted by FatBear

We gave canal cruising a trial a few years ago and my wife does not want to do it full time. We are hoping to get a canal capable boat and enjoy the trip through France when headed north/south.

The Distant Shores folks, Paul and Sheryl Shard spent a season in the French canals with their 49 ft Southerly. The dropped the mast in Normandy and hoisted it back when the hit the Med. The available episodes are available for download on their website.

[Manos1955]

Originally Posted by Dauntlessny

Umm, where to start.

Not a bad plan. As others have already pointed out a number of the challenges. A few thoughts come to mind:
1. Schengen is an issue, but not an insurmountable one. Your wife speaking Italian and Spanish will certainly help. You can get one year VISA for Spain and while it is only good for Spain, no one rally checks and if they do, go to the next town and they probably won't.

2. I too looked at Dutch boats in my early phase. They are well suited for what you want to do.

Watch the size though, you will want something with an air draft not greater than 3.5 meters and a draft NGT 1.5m.
Also length, I think you need to stay below 14.3m? in length, otherwise you have a multitude of license issues in various countries. Check what that length is.

3. Weather. Yes, the Med is much like western Oregon in the winter. But there are plenty of folks who winter over on their boats in the southern areas, north Africa and Turkey and Greece.

If you did not go the one year route for VISA, then the idea of wintering in Turkey is not a bad idea.

Check out Jim at JimB Sail | Helping Skippers plan European Cruises

Good Luck and don't be discouraged.

Richard on Dauntless in Ireland

Up to 20 meters private boat no need of any special licenses Only a certificate of competency from a local sailing club for insurance purposes

[yachtgemini]

What your contemplating is certainly possible depending on budget. We are non EU citizens and managed to spend 4 years cruising the Med and found solutions to the oft mentioned problems of visas,vat on the boat and health care. We liked it so much that we are now resident in the UK.

Your going to need to be flexible, innovative and do lots of research. While I could scare you off with the problems I would rather suggest that you won't find the solution to your opportunities without lots of research.

We managed to apply for long stay visas in Turkey, Italy, Greece, Cyprus, France and the UK which got us off the schengren 90 day rule. Research retirement visas in various smaller countries such as Cyprus, Portugal, Malta etc.....if you have residency in one country in Europe you then have freedom of movement in the rest.

Health care costs in Europe are a fraction of the USA and we typically had family cover with a high excess for about US$2000 pa. This would not give you medivac back to the USA but we have generally found European Health care as good as the USA (but lacking the hotel feel) and often better. (we ended up having lots of experience in both the USA and Europe)

Personally I would consider a VAT paid boat and have one less complication in your life.There are fewer convenient non EU countries in the vicinity and trying to juggle the 18 month rule is even more difficult if you have taken temporary residence in a country.

Good luck on the project.... it sounds like lots of fun.

Ross

[mikecambrai]

I have spent quite a few years cruising the canals in France, Belgium and Germany. Being British I did not have a visa problem.
There are some useful forums on the internet and I suggest that you start with Expat Forum For People Moving Overseas And Expats Living Abroad | ExpatForum.com. they have a USA section and you will find across the various topics that many people have gone the way that you wish to go and have much advice to give.
For cruising, I head to Holland in the summer and gradually work my way down through France to get to the Midi for the winter. There really is so much to see and enjoy on these canals that it will take you years to see everything.
look at the DBA The Barge Association - DBA website where there are many people who cruise and retire on barges including Americans.
Don't think that the Med is calm and flat. It has hills (waves) which are generated by the many mountains near the shore where the winds get funneled down and produce much wind. The Mistral in France is one in particular and runs down the Rhone valley into the Med.
So your choice of boat to cruise the Med needs to be a very seaworthy one, which is usually a sailing vessel which has less top-hamper. If you have a motor yacht they tend to have large engines so that you can run to harbour when the need arises. Aim to be self-sufficient in terms of power and water. Fit solar panels, and consider a desalination plant if in salt water and a filter system with UV if in fresh water.
We now cruise during the summer months up north and go to the Algarve, Malaga or Denia in the winter. Everything is open and there are many retired people who do the same.
This is a vast area of knowledge gathering, but your biggest problem to counter is likely to be the visa issue. It seems that if you have money the EU does not want you, but if you cross the Med in a rubber dinghy then you can have everything visa free, as the Mexicans do who daily cross illegally into the US.

[Kenomac]

The OP mentioned that they planned to purchase a house in Italy. As far as I know, that would solve their visa issues.

A friend of mine purchased a couple of condos in Malaga, Spain which solved his visa problem by enabling him to apply and obtain a long term Spanish tourist or resident visa, which now enables him to travel without restrictions thought the EU. No more 90 days in then 90 days out stuff.

[omc]

Originally Posted by Kenomac

When I say winter, I mean temperatures similar to Washington DC and New York City .

Perhaps in the Pre-history, but not in the 20 / 21st century. Then I can't allow that to be said.

Either you are never been in DC and NYC in winter, or you are confusing Med with Baltic Sea. I have boats in Antibes since 1978, I'm living near Bandol since 1983, I can say we got approximately 4 centimeters of snow only 3 times in just 36 years. I have been many times in DC and NYC in winter, I have never seen drifting ice blocks over here as I had seen in Hudson and Potomac rivers. For over 4 years it did not freeze over here. not ever un patch of thin ice in my swimming pool. Never winterized our boats since I'm boating.

We swam in the Med until end of November last year, from the boat, while the temperature of the water was 20 C (68 F), the first time this year was last week of March with a seawater temperature of 19 C (66 F).

Maybe have you confused Celsius with Fahrenheit ?

[Kenomac]

Originally Posted by omc

Perhaps in the Pre-history, but not in the 20 / 21st century. Then I can't allow that to be said.

Either you are never been in DC and NYC in winter, or you are confusing Med with Baltic Sea. I have boats in Antibes since 1978, I'm living near Bandol since 1983, I can say we got approximately 4 centimeters of snow only 3 times in just 36 years. I have been many times in DC and NYC in winter, I have never seen drifting ice blocks over here as I had seen in Hudson and Potomac rivers. For over 4 years it did not freeze over here. not ever un patch of thin ice in my swimming pool. Never winterized our boats since I'm boating.

We swam in the Med until end of November last year, from the boat, while the temperature of the water was 20 C (68 F), the first time this year was last week of March with a seawater temperature of 19 C (66 F).

Maybe have you confused Celsius with Fahrenheit ?

No I'm not confused. If the OP spends some time in the Med during the winter, he'll see and feel exactly what I mean. The cold air in the Med cuts right through your clothing like in DC., especially when it's bowing 30-50 knots over the water.

[omc]

Originally Posted by Kenomac

No I'm not confused. If the OP spends some time in the Med during the winter, he'll see and feel exactly what I mean. The cold air in the Med cuts right through your clothing like in DC., especially when it's bowing 30-50 knots over the water.

Kenomac, I have often found your posts VERY useful. Then absolutely free of polemic - I don't like to argue - I fully confirm my last post, which is based on my humble experience of "only" 38 years of boating in the Med, and living in a house which is located in less than half a mile from the sea. For the reason in my own opinion our friends of CF, especially those who are living far away, deserve the availability of reliable answers and informations, as well as an act of respect for them, for their great plans, and for this valuable forum.

[Juho]

A motorboat would be good for the inland canal network. But a sailboat would be better for the sea. With a sailboat it would be easier to expand your cruising area e.g. to the Canary Islands.

Since you said that you will not do lots of canal cruising, maybe you should consider the sailboat option once more. Your wife would only need to know how to drop the sails, since after that the sailboat becomes just an easy to handle motorboat.

And if you buy a boat that is easy to sail (e.g. sails that can be rolled in and out with a push of a button), maybe your wife would soon be comfortable with sails too. You should go sailing with her, to see if sailing turns out to be as easy as I think it is. Not too many extra skills needed when compared to motoring. You can of course also start by motoring, and sail only when you feel like sailing.