Is There an Accepted/Easy Way to Deal With Schengen 90 Day Rules?

[Alita49DS]

There is no yard in Gibraltar. Not even a crane for a decent sized boat. Any lift and hard standing is in Spain. Or on the other side of the Straights in Morocco.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by Captn_Black

For most EU countries that I know, the VAT rule applies after more than 6 months out of a tax year. So if you can't get a visa for that long then it's not a worry.

I believe it's 6 months in a year, they can (if they realize and decide to enforce it) classify you as a resident for tax purposes, so if you play the Schengen right, it's possible to hit the 6 month limit (though things have to line up just right).

The real issue is if you will be doing this for a few years. Let's say you put the boat up in Spain while you fly out. The "boat" has an 18 month window before VAT is due even if you aren't a resident but at this point it gets messy. If you put it in bond with the local authorities, you can get an extra 6months for the time you are away...but at that point it's usually easier to get the boat out of the EU for a day. The VAT rule resets with just a day outside the EU (note EU and Schengen are different)

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by sepharad

The easiest way to deal with entry and exit, involves using an online Schengen calculator.

This is because it is not a straightforward 90 in, 90 out. This apparently is far too rational. The business about 90 days in a 180 day period, does not necessarily begin and end where a normal, rational person would think.

By the way to make it worse, there is no universally accepted calculator (including the one on Schengens own website), nor does every country start and end the count in the same way. Try to find a calculator for the Schengen country you will be re-entering to.

And to make it even stranger, be sure the NON-EU country you are going to is also NON-SCHENGEN. Some non-EU countries are still Schengen.

......

My counting mishap involved Crossing from Hungary to Romania and back. They did not care when I left EU Hungary, but when I had entered EU Portugal. The fact that I left the EU after 80 days did not impress them at all. Nor did I get any sort of good time calculation. The very nice control agent in Romania was not at all surprised my calculation was wrong. It took him 3 calculations to make a determination.
......

It's really pretty simple. If you spent any part of a day in the Schengen area, it counts as a day (if you land and they stamp your passport at 23:59, it counts as a day even though it was only 1 minute you were inside). If at any point, the number of days in the last 180 exceeds 90, you went over the limit. We have a simple schedule on a spreadsheet with 2 columns. First column we enter "1" if we were in the Schengen. The second column is a simple formula to add up the last 180 days from the first column. If it exceeds 90, we need to change the schedule to get out.

It's actually a lot more flexible than 90 in 90 out. You can do every other week in the Schengen if it fits your needs as long as the total doesn't exceed 90 in the last 180.

Schengen and EU is not the same thing. Nothing too complicated about that when talking about visas. If you left the EU but not the Schengen...of course it means nothing to them when they are adding up the Schengen visa days. I could see this type of mistake if you were taking a 2 week vacation to europe but if you are there for more than 3 months, it's not hard to find out and seems fairly basic to research the requirements.

Only two slight complications:
- Yes, some country pairs have treaties that predate the Schengen and allow for different time periods. If you are going to use those, I would suggest getting documentation ahead of time as they aren't well known and 3rd party countries are under no obligation to honor those treaties when you show up at their border.
- Some countries are working towards full Schengen integration and you may or may not be able to get away with more than 90 days. Again, get details in writing from the country if you want to push the limits.

PS: We usually stay conservative keeping a spare week, so if something happens and we can't get out, we have options. (say you are on day 90 and your flight get's rescheduled for tomorrow).

[peterlewis19]

Hi all. As a Kiwi cruising the Med for the last couple of years my thoughts of outside EU zone.
Montenegro great place, VERY cheap to live and cheap diesel - easy three months.
Albania - love the place, cheaper than Montenegro but not much sailing available but still worth at least a month.
Turkey also a great place, very easy, need an agent to enter and leave. About 100 Euros in and 50 E out, but cheap, friendly and fantastic sailing and anchorages everywhere - never needed to go to a marina. Food (produce) is almost the best in the world and as a qualified chef, I should know. Tomatoes, peppers Oh I could go on! Only allowed 3 months in 6. Easy to get a 12-month visa but costs about 200 E.
Tunisia - stuck here for the duration o the virus. Probably the luckiest day of our life when we got stuck here! Cheap beyond comprehension - strawberries in season less than 2E per Kilo. Trades excellent if you go on known recomendations cheapest in Europe. Love the place. One year in the marina only 2000E for 16m yacht. Go for it. Peter

[Pete7]

Originally Posted by tedowens

Another issue is making sure that your passport gets stamped when you depart the Schengen zone. This is your rock solid evidence that you were out of the zone, but not all countries stamp passports (ie. USA, UK). Also, if you are coming from the Azores (Portugal) to a Schengen country on the continent, they will not stamp you out despite the fact that you might be in international waters for a week (so tell them you are going to the

I was following the Rigging Doctor on YT and they made this point since the time from the Azores to Portugal at sea will still count unless you are very careful. They spent some time in the Azores applying for a residents permit. Seemed a right Kerfuffle having started the process before they left the US but got there in the end.

Sailing Uma on YT got Kika a extended visa for the UK and from there the Dutch have given her a long EU visa so long as they travelled directly from UK to Holland. Not difficult it was a 3 day passage including most of the English Channel.

No idea what us Brits are going to do next year, probably stay at home and cry in our soup

[Dennis Clarke]

I'm planning the same adventure... buying a sailboat in UK/EU and spend 1st year sailing between EU and UK..need to plan around Bay of Biscay (for insurance purposes) but there is no easy way around it as you have to leave EU after 90 days and stay out for the same period.

[Differentroads]

PeterLewis19 nails it. The only thing I have to add is that Morocco is also a good place to sit out your 90 days. On the Meditteranean side Smir, M'Diq and Tanger are your options.
I'm now keener than ever to try Tunisia though, hopping between Italy (particularly Sardinia and Sicily) and Tunisia. Perhaps when whatever the new normal is established

[ccannan]

Originally Posted by mdamours

I wrote a little post about it after facing the same issue last year:https://oxalisborealis.com/sailing-i...-90-day-limit/

Excellent summary!

However, to focus on the original question ignore (or consider separately) Martin's (the author of the excellent post linked above) statements regarding VAT, insurance, and security. I'm not saying they aren't important considerations I'm saying they don't directly answer the original question.

When departing Schengen/EU countries (by airplane, or boat) always, always, always get your passport stamped! Always, always, always verify the exit and entry stamps are legible and insist that they are! Tell immigration officials and everyone else your next destination is non-Schengen/EU. For example, if you depart the Azores tell the Portuguese immigration officials that Morocco (or pick your non-Schengen/EU country) is your destination. If you later decide to change your destination to Lisbon, Portugal, the immigration officials in Lisbon will have to to stamp your passport for re-entry into Schengen/EU. Days at sea need not count as days in Schengen/EU!

However, to answer your question. Look at a map! It isn't rocket science. All north African countries are non-Schengen with the exception of the Spanish territories Mellia and Ceuta, as are UK, Ireland, Gibraltar, Monaco, Croatia, Bosnia, Montenegro, Albania, Bulgaria, Romania, Russia, Ukraine, Georgia, Turkey, Cyprus, Syria, Lebanon, and Israel.

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by ccannan

Excellent summary!

However, to focus on the original question ignore (or consider separately) Martin's (the author of the excellent post linked above) statements regarding VAT, insurance, and security. I'm not saying they aren't important considerations I'm saying they don't directly answer the original question.

When departing Schengen/EU countries (by airplane, or boat) always, always, always get your passport stamped! Always, always, always verify the exit and entry stamps are legible and insist that they are! Tell immigration officials and everyone else your next destination is non-Schengen/EU. For example, if you depart the Azores tell the Portuguese immigration officials that Morocco (or pick your non-Schengen/EU country) is your destination. If you later decide to change your destination to Lisbon, Portugal, the immigration officials in Lisbon will have to to stamp your passport for re-entry into Schengen/EU. Days at sea need not count as days in Schengen/EU!

However, to answer your question. Look at a map! It isn't rocket science. All north African countries are non-Schengen with the exception of the Spanish territories Mellia and Ceuta, as are UK, Ireland, Gibraltar, Monaco, Croatia, Bosnia, Montenegro, Albania, Bulgaria, Romania, Russia, Ukraine, Georgia, Turkey, Cyprus, Syria, Lebanon, and Israel.

Yeah, but I wanted to know which ones are good. Lybia, Egypt and Syria are right there too, but may fall on the “less good” side of the scale. I was asking for places that are good to visit and convenient. Thankful for all the responses!

[ccannan]

Originally Posted by Chotu

Yeah, but I wanted to know which ones are good. Lybia, Egypt and Syria are right there too, but may fall on the “less good” side of the scale. I was asking for places that are good to visit and convenient. Thankful for all the responses!

Your original post didn't contain the word "good" or "convenient". This is an international forum. Perhaps you are Egyptian, Syrian, or Libyan, and/or have different security requirements.

As Martin wrote, the security situations in the countries in question change all the time and will continue to change. While many western forum members wouldn't dare visit Morocco and Tunisia, others have recently and continue to do (including me). I suspect the same is true of Lebanon, and Egypt.

If you want to know which countries are "good to visit and convenient" maybe you should be clearer in your writing, and also recognize that the adjectives you used are subjective (meaning what may be good or convenient for others may not be for you).

As an aside, in my 32 visits to Russia, I have never not been asked by officials demand illegal payment. Obviously, it didn't stop me from returning. I've also had US South Carolina Department of Natural Resources officers hit me up for a cash payment for the fines they cited me for.

[Boatguy30]

Does anyone check often? Do marinas ask to see your passport often?

[maine50]

In Porto Santo (a Madeira island) i was asked by either the National Police or the Immigration officer stationed there part time to see my passport. He made a point to come down to my boat and ask for me. I was within the 90 days by at least 15 days.

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by ccannan

Your original post didn't contain the word "good" or "convenient". This is an international forum. Perhaps you are Egyptian, Syrian, or Libyan, and/or have different security requirements.

As Martin wrote, the security situations in the countries in question change all the time and will continue to change. While many western forum members wouldn't dare visit Morocco and Tunisia, others have recently and continue to do (including me). I suspect the same is true of Lebanon, and Egypt.

If you want to know which countries are "good to visit and convenient" maybe you should be clearer in your writing, and also recognize that the adjectives you used are subjective (meaning what may be good or convenient for others may not be for you).

As an aside, in my 32 visits to Russia, I have never not been asked by officials demand illegal payment. Obviously, it didn't stop me from returning. I've also had US South Carolina Department of Natural Resources officers hit me up for a cash payment for the fines they cited me for.

It’s exactly what I asked:

“ normal, easy, short distance ports are to allow you to reset the clock. Ones people typically use.” Thi quote is a Copy/paste of Second Post of the thread.

There are common, accepted ways to do this that people have figured out work great over the years with minimal inconvenience. Lots of good advice in the thread. It’s not rocket science.

[ccannan]

Umm.... Ok. You didn't get around to anything close to that until post #9, but why quibble.

Your welcome for my advice regarding stamps, and declaring a non-Schengen destination everytime you leave a Schengen/EU country. The time sailed can add up.

Hopefully, by now you should understand there is no way to "bounce", no set, easy way to reset your girlfriend's Schengen clock.

Many, including me have given you lists of the non-Schengen countries around the greater Europe/Med, but you haven't revealed your intentions. Do ye wish to sail north to south or south to north, west to east or east to west?
It does make a difference, you know with winds, currents, and seasons.

Noonsite.com is a great resource, it lists all the ports of entry for all maritime nations. The site also provides first hand mariner accounts of recent experiences in those ports and countries.

[JeanF73]

My 2 cents and experience

-Vessels flagged outside EU: 18 months, reset by visiting a port outside the EU and have some kind of document to prove it (Marina/port receipts, fuel bill, etc)
There is also provisions in EU customs code to as for an extension; in France for exceptional circumstances such as sabbatical, retirement, etc!!!!

-90 days Shenghen over a 180 days period: generally enforced, when leaving, by immigration but varies depending of the country (Italy been the more lax I have encountered).
In all the EU countries there is a possibility to ask for a "Carte de Sejour - French term no tax liability etc)" which is NOT a residency permit per se, but the process and difficulty varies depending on the country. I my experience the French are the easiest as been resident on a boat is acceptable as long as you have an address and a mooring contract/letter from the marina stating that the boat is under a mooring contract. Also people had success in Malta using a friend's address.

So NO, there is no accepted and easy way..., but there is a way...