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Old 28-05-2020, 09:17   #16
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Re: Is There an Accepted/Easy Way to Deal With Schengen 90 Day Rules?

The easiest way to deal with entry and exit, involves using an online Schengen calculator.

This is because it is not a straightforward 90 in, 90 out. This apparently is far too rational. The business about 90 days in a 180 day period, does not necessarily begin and end where a normal, rational person would think.

By the way to make it worse, there is no universally accepted calculator (including the one on Schengens own website), nor does every country start and end the count in the same way. Try to find a calculator for the Schengen country you will be re-entering to.

And to make it even stranger, be sure the NON-EU country you are going to is also NON-SCHENGEN. Some non-EU countries are still Schengen.

And for some final weirdness, If the Non-EU person is an American and you want to Hang in Poland, The US and Poland have a" special arrangement" 180 day Schengen agreement
If Covid permits, where to lay low depends on what you enjoy, can afford.

In Northern Europe I used to hang out in the UK. England, Scotland and Wales are all nice, flights are readily available and if you stay out of big cities, reasonable prices can be had.

In Southern Europe, I like Turkey, where you can kill time sailing at reasonable prices and flights are plentiful, or if you travel by flight Romania and POSSIBLY Bulgaria are very nice and inexpensive. If you are in the Eastern Med i suppose you could sail to Constanta in Romania.

Bulgaria, last I saw, had applied for Schengen but still did not have it. That could drag on for years or never happen at all, but always check.

My counting mishap involved Crossing from Hungary to Romania and back. They did not care when I left EU Hungary, but when I had entered EU Portugal. The fact that I left the EU after 80 days did not impress them at all. Nor did I get any sort of good time calculation. The very nice control agent in Romania was not at all surprised my calculation was wrong. It took him 3 calculations to make a determination.

I have not stayed in North Africa, but could imagine Morocco could be quite nice. A lot of Portuguese go to Tunisia and stay in package resorts, but 90 days in a resort would be a bit excessive.
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Old 28-05-2020, 09:43   #17
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Re: Is There an Accepted/Easy Way to Deal With Schengen 90 Day Rules?

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Originally Posted by Chotu View Post
Nope. Not a resident. Just a citizen. Going in as an American. Hence, my question about which ports outside the Schengen zone are best to bounce out to for the required 90 days.
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Old 28-05-2020, 09:47   #18
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Re: Is There an Accepted/Easy Way to Deal With Schengen 90 Day Rules?

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Originally Posted by Chotu View Post
Bounce to Canada, Mexico, Bahamas, so you donít have to make excessive journeys.

I didnít ask how to stay longer than 90.

I asked what the normal, easy, short distance ports are to allow you to reset the clock. Ones people typically use.

Iím already a citizen of the EU anyway. My girlfriend limits the time.
Getting out of EC does not reset the clock. The clock counts all days spent in EC during past 180 days. If you go out, these days does not count. When you get back into EC the count resumes.
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Old 28-05-2020, 09:49   #19
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Re: Is There an Accepted/Easy Way to Deal With Schengen 90 Day Rules?

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Originally Posted by Chotu View Post
Bounce to Canada, Mexico, Bahamas, so you donít have to make excessive journeys.

I didnít ask how to stay longer than 90.

I asked what the normal, easy, short distance ports are to allow you to reset the clock. Ones people typically use.

Iím already a citizen of the EU anyway. My girlfriend limits the time.
Marry her. Then she will no longer limit the time. She will be allowed to accompany you as a wife of EU citizen even if she is not a citizen herself.
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Old 28-05-2020, 09:58   #20
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Re: Is There an Accepted/Easy Way to Deal With Schengen 90 Day Rules?

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Originally Posted by mdamours View Post
I wrote a little post about it after facing the same issue last year:

https://oxalisborealis.com/sailing-i...-90-day-limit/
Thankyou, a nice write up.
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Old 28-05-2020, 10:07   #21
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Re: Is There an Accepted/Easy Way to Deal With Schengen 90 Day Rules?

I canít understand the confusion, itís all so simple.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schengen_Area
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Old 28-05-2020, 11:27   #22
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Re: Is There an Accepted/Easy Way to Deal With Schengen 90 Day Rules?

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Originally Posted by mdamours View Post
I wrote a little post about it after facing the same issue last year:

https://oxalisborealis.com/sailing-i...-90-day-limit/
Thank you for citing your link. It was well written, informative, and interesting.
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Old 28-05-2020, 12:11   #23
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Re: Is There an Accepted/Easy Way to Deal With Schengen 90 Day Rules?

Portugal has an 90 day visa extension (confirmed at multiple immigration offices in Azore and Madeira islands. Some requirements included proof of medical Ins and some proof of financial means to live there. It cost 100e.
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Old 28-05-2020, 12:44   #24
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Re: Is There an Accepted/Easy Way to Deal With Schengen 90 Day Rules?

I was able to get a long term visa (1 yr) for France. I am writing this as an American (each country has different rules). Unfortunately, I haven't gotten closer than Portugal before the pandemic lock down struck, but this is another issue. The instructions on this website give the requirements for various French visas (https://france-visas.gouv.fr/web/fra...mande-en-ligne). The biggest expense is that you need to get travel medical insurance, which was close to $1,000 for two of us for a year. They also make a big deal about having to apply from within your home country. In fact the instructions say that you have to use the city with a consulate that is closest to your home and only with an appointment (the interview process has been outsourced to a company named VFS). This turned out not to be true, instead you can walk in to a processing center anywhere in your home country (I have also read that some folks have been able to do this from a third country). In any case, you definitely need to do it before you get inside the Schengen zone.

What others have said about this simultaneously consuming your 90 no visa required Schengen days also applies. So after your 1 yr in France, you will need to go to a non-Schengen country to earn back days (1 for 1). Of course if you used those days before going to France (in Span for example). Then this additional year does not simultaneously consume those days (as they are already used up).

Many cruisers have told me that some countries are particular about cruisers following these rule and some don't care. So, you may well be able to get away with a longer stay, but you don't know how it will go until you present your passport to an immigration agent. I think the fine for overstaying is about $1,200 plus you could be banned from returning. One thing that I have noticed is that immigration officers in airports seem to be stricter than the ones at the marinas.

Another issue is making sure that your passport gets stamped when you depart the Schengen zone. This is your rock solid evidence that you were out of the zone, but not all countries stamp passports (ie. USA, UK). Also, if you are coming from the Azores (Portugal) to a Schengen country on the continent, they will not stamp you out despite the fact that you might be in international waters for a week (so tell them you are going to the UK then you can change your mind half way over). Managing these rules is definitely a pain. But now that the pandemic lockdown is put on top, it is nearly impossible. So make sure that this has been resolved before you make any moves.
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Old 28-05-2020, 12:53   #25
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Re: Is There an Accepted/Easy Way to Deal With Schengen 90 Day Rules?

Albania, Montenegro are also options for the Adriatic. Turkey has some great offer for yearly contracts, including one haul out and allowing free of charge rooming to connected marinas....
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Old 28-05-2020, 13:43   #26
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Re: Is There an Accepted/Easy Way to Deal With Schengen 90 Day Rules?

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Originally Posted by dannc View Post
As a resident, would one then have to pay VAT on the boat, depending on country? I think in Ireland there might be a way to escape VAT.

Later,
Dan
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chotu View Post
Nope. Not a resident. Just a citizen. Going in as an American. Hence, my question about which ports outside the Schengen zone are best to bounce out to for the required 90 days.
Yes, I was asking CatNewBee about the resident issue and VAT.

My understanding is that EU CITIZENS have to pay VAT on the boat as soon as they enter the EU. I thought this applied for a resident as well, with maybe an exception in Ireland, that I have read about.

But if you go in as an American, would you not also be limited to the 90 day rule?

If you show your passport for an EU country, to escape the 90 day rule, then would you not open yourself up to VAT on the boat?

Later,
Dan
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Old 28-05-2020, 14:36   #27
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Re: Is There an Accepted/Easy Way to Deal With Schengen 90 Day Rules?

As a dual US/EU citizen owner of a US flagged boat temporarily imported to the EU Iíve been following and researching this closely. Itís my understanding (not tested by the authorities yet) that the VAT rule only applies to EU residents and not citizens. And you become resident after spending 181 days in a given EU country.

Our plans are to keep moving from EU country to EU country never spending more than 180 days in any one country. And make sure to re-import the boat by exiting the EU customs zone at least once every 18 months.
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Old 28-05-2020, 14:42   #28
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Re: Is There an Accepted/Easy Way to Deal With Schengen 90 Day Rules?

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Originally Posted by valhalla360 View Post
Generally not available to cruisers. You hear some apocryphal stories of getting long term visas but they never seem to provide details. Of course, most long term visas usually require minimum income and a residence you will live at. Technically, they only apply to the country of the visa and the 90 day rule applies to the rest of the Schengen area.

Assuming you are using the Schengen 90 day visa limits, you can use the following to get out of the Schengen:
- UK
- Ireland
- Any of the North African Countries
- Turkey
- Montenegro
- Albania
- Bosnia
- Russia

There are a few gray area countries, like Croatia & Hungary where they are working toward full Schengen status, so for long term planning it's up in the air. (Brexit and Corona may change the path also)

Keep in mind, it's a running tally, so the days of hopping the boarder for a day and returning to a fresh clock are gone. It's 90 days out of the prior 180 days that you are allowed.

VAT rules (assuming your boat isn't VAT paid) are completely separate. For example, if you use the canal/river system to get to Switzerland, you can reset the VAT exemption on the boat by having the boat spend a day in Switzerland but it doesn't do anything for your visa since Switzerland participates in the Schengen Visa scheme but not in the EU VAT scheme.
For most EU countries that I know, the VAT rule applies after more than 6 months out of a tax year. So if you can't get a visa for that long then it's not a worry.
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Old 28-05-2020, 16:52   #29
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Re: Is There an Accepted/Easy Way to Deal With Schengen 90 Day Rules?

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Originally Posted by Dtm67 View Post
As a dual US/EU citizen owner of a US flagged boat temporarily imported to the EU Iíve been following and researching this closely. Itís my understanding (not tested by the authorities yet) that the VAT rule only applies to EU residents and not citizens. And you become resident after spending 181 days in a given EU country.

Our plans are to keep moving from EU country to EU country never spending more than 180 days in any one country. And make sure to re-import the boat by exiting the EU customs zone at least once every 18 months.
Exactly.

Also, they donít need to know about my citizenship. Thereís nothing requiring me to use anything other than my US passport.
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Old 28-05-2020, 17:02   #30
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Re: Is There an Accepted/Easy Way to Deal With Schengen 90 Day Rules?

Thank you for all of this information! It’s actually very clear now.
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