Is Black Sea a 'Dead End' ?

[unbusted67]

I'm sorry but this is a total revelation and I am having my mind blown. This sounds like the coolest thing ever. I am slowly becoming obsessed with the American Great Circle but the fact that there is a European one and that it is seldom cruised seems amazing. What an adventure. Think of all of the cool gems there are hidden along the way. I'm in. Who's coming with me?

PS didn't Tristan Jones try something like this? I read part of his book about a journey up the Rhine but had to put it down during one of his diatribes about every man's right to be airlifted over unnavigable waters or something.

[Oyvind]

Here's a detailed account of a 37' yacht that took the trip 'downhill' from Vienna, I believe it was in 2004: Sailing on Danube from Vienna to Constanza

[bobsadler]

i worked recently on oilfield developments in the caspian and, yes, there is access from the black sea to the caspian for quite large vessels. the canal system is frozen for about 5 months a year and you can expect to be "taxed" by every official you pass

[Zanshin]

While my boat is currently elsewhere, I am about 1Km from the Rhein-Main-Danube canal system and wonder if the draft is deep enough for a sailboat with enough LWL to survive the currents - do you know what the depth is?

[Oyvind]

From the Wikipedia article: Rhine–Main–Danube Canal - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The cross-section of the waterway is normally trapezoidal, with 31 meters width at the bottom, 55 meters wide at the water surface, 4 meters of water depth, and a side grade of 1:3. The channel is a Waterway Class Vb; the largest authorised vehicles are 190 m in length and 11.45 m wide. The channel in the Kelheim-bound Bamberg lock has a depth of 2.70 m. In the few sections with a rectangular profile, the width is usually 43 m.

I believe the upper parts of the Danube may pose more of a challenge WRT navigability. Problem is that there isn't a lot of information around on navigating the Danube. The only English book I've found that may contain some useful information is 'The Danube: A River Guide', but it seems to be more geared towards tourists on river cruises. It's available on Amazon: The Danube: A River Guide: Amazon.co.uk: Rod Heikell: Books

There is also the Danube Commission, which governs navigation on the river. Their website is WELCOME TO THE DANUBE COMMISSION , but there is very little information in English. If you're able to read German, There seems to be much more information available in that language.

[SabreKai]

Try reading "the Improbable Voyage" by Tristan Jones. He took a Trimaran from europe to the black sea via the Danube. Read the book some time ago and it was very entertaining.

Sabre, 120 days n a wake up.

[Subtandard]

North Sea to Black Sea can be done. Going the other direction is not for sailboats. I have been researching this for a few months. I am working on an interactive map at North Sea to Black Sea Inland Routes that shows some of the routes. Going up the Rhine could be dicey if you cannot maintain 8 knots under power. Going through the French canals is slower but looks like fun to me. It seems like the trick is to do it one season, before the Danube freezes over in Eastern Europe.

The books I have found on it are listed at Cruising Tips - North Sea to Black Sea Passage. I may write an updated guide myself after the trip if I can find a publisher.

Regarding getting out of the Black Sea by other rivers, the issue of currents may apply there also.

[unbusted67]

Originally Posted by Subtandard

North Sea to Black Sea Inland Routes

This is cool I was looking at google earth the other day trying to find something like this. You should publish to google earth.

[swagman]

Originally Posted by SabreKai

Try reading "the Improbable Voyage" by Tristan Jones. He took a Trimaran from europe to the black sea via the Danube. Read the book some time ago and it was very entertaining.

Sabre, 120 days n a wake up.

I agree Tristan Jones books are very good - but for those who don't know, there is a fair amount of imagination gone into making them so enjoyable.

So whatever you do, don't try to repeat what Tristan writes about. He NEVER let facts stand in the way of a good story.

Cheers

JOHN

[osirissail]

I second that, it is well known and rumored that very little of his adventures in the books really happened outside his imagination. See: Tristan Jones - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
That does not lower the enjoyment of the books, they are wonderful - but they are sold in the "fiction" area in bookstores.

[skipper3]

Originally Posted by Oyvind

... There have also been reports of piracy in some parts of Rumania, where boats are recommended not to stop for the night.

Could you please quote the source of these "reports of piracy"?
I lived in Ro for the last 40 years but I never heard about having such outlaws in here. Are you sure it is about Romania and not Somalia?

[Grehan]

Going up the Rhone in 2008, we shared a lock with a German motor boat that was completing the last leg of the loop, back to Germany. Boat looked in good condition, everyone looked ok, and the skipper seemed happy to recount the basics of the downstream journey Rhine-Danube-Black Sea-Med-Rhone-home. I think you'd definitely need a suitably powered to vessel to go up the Danube though.

[GordMay]

Originally Posted by Oyvind

... There have also been reports of piracy in some parts of Rumania, where boats are recommended not to stop for the night.

Oyvind may be mistakenly referring to Serbian pirates harassing Bulgarian shipping for commodities.

Pirates are reportedly attacking ships on the Danube between Romania and Bulgaria. Bulgaria's commercial fleet on the Danube River has been raided 38 times by Serbian pirates in the last two years, according to the Bulgarian River Shipping company. The river section where pirates are most active is from Smederevo to Belgrade. The section is unguarded and pirates have little difficulty in snatching booty - oil, metals, wheat, sugar and fertilizers.

Serbian Pirates Harass Bulgaria's Commercial Shipping on Danube
➥ http://www.novinite.com/view_news.php?id=99507

Or perhaps, he’s referring to another form of piracy, not normally affecting yachts.

Piracy worked for us, Romania president tells Gates
➥ Piracy worked for us, Romania president tells Gates - washingtonpost.com

Romanian prez to Gates: Windows piracy built this country
➥ Romanian prez to Gates: Windows piracy built this country

[skipper3]

Originally Posted by GordMay

...
Pirates are reportedly attacking ships on the Danube between Romania and Bulgaria. ...

The report you quote is about Serbians plundering Bulgarian ships in Serbian waters. And, guess what, Serbia is not at all "between Bulgaria and Romania"!

I am still waiting for the source of the "reports" or the necessary retractation!

PS. And please don't speak about dumb presidents, at least ours didn't start any war!

[GordMay]

Originally Posted by skipper3

... I am still waiting for the source of the "reports" or the necessary retractation!
PS. And please don't speak about dumb presidents, at least ours didn't start any war!

Apparently, According to the report, to which I linked, the allegations originate with Ivan Ivanov, of the Bulgarian River Shipping company.

True or not, I wouldn't think that thieves seeking grain (etc) would find much interest in most cruising yachts.

I made no accusation (in this thread) of stupidity, relative to any President.