In or out of the EU, how will it effect the boating community.

[Polux]

Originally Posted by boatman61

[FONT="Comic Sans MS"][SIZE="3"]That's a joke.. actually its a bloody lie..
Before being able to qualify for benefits in Portugal I would have to work for two years in Portugal..
...

Here is what you have right, the same a Portuguese citizen have. Laws and benefices are different in different countries and what you get regarding welfare on EU while working on other country is what the citizens of that country get.

Portugal - Employment, Social Affairs & Inclusion - European Commission

For wealth care you don't need no time, the right is immediate.

The only thing where a time is needed is for getting an unemployment pension and for that you have to have residence here and to have worked (and discounted for social security) during 360 days out of 2 years.

I believe that you or someone that has informed you regarding those two years you talk about have mistaken the legislation. The 2 years regards the time you have to have 360 days of working time (on the 2 years) to have right to a pension. If you work 360 days, no matter in how much time you have right to an unemployment pension, you or any Portuguese citizen.

When the law that refers to the famous exceptionality of the UK regarding giving equal rights to EU citizens as to their own citizens, they will have to work 4 years to get social benefices, if I remember correctly the "news".

Workers may claim Social Unemployment Benefits, a cash benefit paid to the unemployed beneficiary, to compensate them for lack of income due to involuntary unemployment....

What are the eligibility conditions for access?
Beneficiaries must reside in Portugal;
Beneficiaries must be involuntarily unemployed;
Beneficiaries must be capable of working and available for employment;
Beneficiaries must be registered as job seekers at a Centro de Emprego [Job Centre] in their area of residence;
Beneficiaries must meet the minimum qualifying period requirement: 360 days of paid employment (with registered earnings) in the 24 calendar months immediately prior to the date of unemployment.
Days on which the beneficiary worked in the following countries are counted towards the minimum qualifying period: EU states, Iceland, Norway, Lichtenstein or Switzerland;
....
Beneficiaries must meet the minimum qualifying period requirement of 180 days of paid employment (with registered earnings) in the 12 calendar months immediately prior to the date of unemployment;

Portugal - Employment, Social Affairs & Inclusion - European Commission

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by Polux

Here is what you have right, the same a Portuguese citizen have. Laws and benefices are different in different countries and what you get regarding welfare on EU while working on other country is what the citizens of that country get.

Portugal - Employment, Social Affairs & Inclusion - European Commission

For wealth care you don't need no time, the right is immediate.

The only thing where a time is needed is for getting an unemployment pension and for that you have to have residence here and to have worked (and discounted for social security) during 360 days out of 2 years.

I believe that you or someone that has informed you regarding those two years you talk about have mistaken the legislation. The 2 years regards the time you have to have 360 days of working time (on the 2 years) to have right to a pension. If you work 360 days, no matter in how much time you have right to an unemployment pension, you or any Portuguese citizen.

When the law that refers to the famous exceptionality of the UK regarding giving equal rights to EU citizens as to their own citizens, they will have to work 4 years to get social benefices, if I remember correctly the "news".

Workers may claim Social Unemployment Benefits, a cash benefit paid to the unemployed beneficiary, to compensate them for lack of income due to involuntary unemployment....

What are the eligibility conditions for access?
Beneficiaries must reside in Portugal;
Beneficiaries must be involuntarily unemployed;
Beneficiaries must be capable of working and available for employment;
Beneficiaries must be registered as job seekers at a Centro de Emprego [Job Centre] in their area of residence;
Beneficiaries must meet the minimum qualifying period requirement: 360 days of paid employment (with registered earnings) in the 24 calendar months immediately prior to the date of unemployment.
Days on which the beneficiary worked in the following countries are counted towards the minimum qualifying period: EU states, Iceland, Norway, Lichtenstein or Switzerland;
....
Beneficiaries must meet the minimum qualifying period requirement of 180 days of paid employment (with registered earnings) in the 12 calendar months immediately prior to the date of unemployment;

Portugal - Employment, Social Affairs & Inclusion - European Commission

The 4 years is what Cameron has just tried for and is not yet law.. its in the 'Process' and still to be ratified.
Regarding the 'Benefits' in Portugal.. I looked at it briefly 9yrs ago when I decided to stay a while.. however as I could not speak Portuguese back then.. and Lisbon would not recognise my RYA qualifications for a Beach Sports concession in the Algarve said I had to have the Schools Stamp on it.. pretty hard since I got them in '85 and they closed in the 90's.. work was not an option.
So I started Deliveries in a more serious way as opposed to the occasional 'favour'..
I did not like signing for Benefits back in the UK so no way would I sign on here.. work is easily available in the UK if you want it.. Manpower etc temp agencies.. bicycle courier in London etc..I'm a survivor

[Uncle Bob]

Originally Posted by boatman61

The 4 years is what Cameron has just tried for and is not yet law.. its in the 'Process' and still to be ratified.
Regarding the 'Benefits' in Portugal.. I looked at it briefly 9yrs ago when I decided to stay a while.. however as I could not speak Portuguese back then.. and Lisbon would not recognise my RYA qualifications for a Beach Sports concession in the Algarve said I had to have the Schools Stamp on it.. pretty hard since I got them in '85 and they closed in the 90's.. work was not an option.
So I started Deliveries in a more serious way as opposed to the occasional 'favour'..
I did not like signing for Benefits back in the UK so no way would I sign on here.. work is easily available in the UK if you want it.. Manpower etc temp agencies.. bicycle courier in London etc..I'm a survivor

Ah yes a survivor indeed...with a social conscience, a rare breed not understood by all.

[Juho]

Originally Posted by Uncle Bob

Ah yes a survivor indeed...with a social conscience, a rare breed not understood by all.

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by Uncle Bob

Ah yes a survivor indeed...with a social conscience, a rare breed not understood by all.

Ahahahahahahahaaaa...
Thanks Bob... not quite sure on the 'social conscience' bit but definitely anti the 2 H's one has to endure to get what one has contributed to in ones own country..
Humiliation and Hoops.
I'm one of those arrogant bastards that's of the opinion that an employer needs me, or others like me... more than I need him.



Some of the below we knew and objected to.. the rest were backdoor tactics by the Eton and Oxford 'Fags and Bum Boys' who infest our civil services and Westminster

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/650...eed%29&ref=yfp

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by Richard5

I am a bit perplexed by Valhalla360's comment (#14) which seems to suggest a country would qualify for 3rd world status by dint of leaving. Perhaps he has specific countries in mind. I must be missing something or not reading it right.

I'm saying the opposite. I've seen many news articles with EU leadership suggesting a break would be devastating to any country leaving. Most have been directed towards the PIIGS but some suggest a similar fate for the UK.

Crying wolf about the results of a breakup is the main thing stopping several countries from breaking away. Citizens are being scared by the threat of falling back to 3rd world status into voting for more austerity governnents but it's been a close call. Eventually, one will decide it's not worth decades of continual pain and once they break away and their economy gets better, there will be a rush for the exit.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by Polux

Federal Europe with time will probably see Turkey and Russia become part of it (when they sort out democracy and civil rights) and then we are talking about 620 millions of citizens a number that seems right to me to constitute a sizable economic bloc on the new economic order, with China, India, Brazil with US assuming other key roles.

Europe as a tapestry of small countries has no future and will become insignificant. Any European country including UK or even Russia will not have the weight to play any significant role on the new economic order.

What would be the future of UK in all that?

The EU is already a sizable economic bloc. Adding new members to the PIIGS group isn't going to make them stronger. They are trying to fudge the numbers for Turkey for strategic reasons...of course that didn't work out so well with Greece. The few economically strong countries in the region (switzerland, norway...) show no signs of wanting to join. It's the weak countries that want in.

The biggest issue with the EU is they don't know if they are a single country or a bunch of small countries.

The idea that Russia will join any time in the next 40-50yrs leaves me skeptical of anything else you add. Unless oil prices come back up soon, I expect things to become more contentious.

To the original point of this article: There may be the occasional official who takes it into thier hands to hassle UK boaters but that should fade with time. There is too much shared history and economic benefit to pull a USA/Cuba embargo on them.

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by valhalla360

The EU is already a sizable economic bloc. Adding new members to the PIIGS group isn't going to make them stronger. They are trying to fudge the numbers for Turkey for strategic reasons...of course that didn't work out so well with Greece. The few economically strong countries in the region (switzerland, norway...) show no signs of wanting to join. It's the weak countries that want in.

The biggest issue with the EU is they don't know if they are a single country or a bunch of small countries.

The idea that Russia will join any time in the next 40-50yrs leaves me skeptical of anything else you add. Unless oil prices come back up soon, I expect things to become more contentious.

To the original point of this article: There may be the occasional official who takes it into thier hands to hassle UK boaters but that should fade with time. There is too much shared history and economic benefit to pull a USA/Cuba embargo on them.

A+1
And this happens already in Portugal, Spain, France, Italy, Greece, Malta...
Has for years

[Juho]

Originally Posted by valhalla360

The biggest issue with the EU is they don't know if they are a single country or a bunch of small countries.

One key issue is that some people take it granted that the whole idea of EU is to become a centrally governed unified superpower, while some others think that the idea was just to create a common market to ease trade between the participating countries.

[Polux]

Originally Posted by valhalla360

The EU is already a sizable economic bloc. ...They are trying to fudge the numbers for Turkey for strategic reasons

The idea that Russia will join any time in the next 40-50yrs leaves me skeptical of anything else you add. Unless oil prices come back up soon, I expect things to become more contentious.
...

No it is not. Not compared with India or China and if you understood that I was talking about China or Russia to be entering EU on the next years you have misunderstood what I was saying.

I talked about Democracy and civil rights on both countries as essential for that to happen and it will not be on a near future but you seem to forget that Europe was very different only 26 years before German reunification and Russian federation. All the East of Europe was not democratic neither respecting civil rights.

Things in what regards history tend to go faster and faster and I would not believe that it would take more than 25 years to Russia and Turkey to be a part of EU.

Russia has a lot more to do with Europe, it is in fact much more European than Turkey, not only by territory but by culture. And you bet that it has all to do with a geo strategic interest that reflects itself on culture but mainly in economic power and overall power. I believe that the Geo strategical interest of Europe lays with its reunion under a democratic federation and with time Russia will reach the same conclusion.

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by Juho

One key issue is that some people take it granted that the whole idea of EU is to become a centrally governed unified superpower, while some others think that the idea was just to create a common market to ease trade between the participating countries.

Ahh yes.. the Common Market Dream that's been warped and abused into an Economic Black Hole.
I 'HAD' A DREAM...

[Polux]

Originally Posted by Juho

One key issue is that some people take it granted that the whole idea of EU is to become a centrally governed unified superpower, while some others think that the idea was just to create a common market to ease trade between the participating countries.

It was about that when it was created many years ago, now:

"According to Eurobarometer (2013), 69% of EU citizens are in favour of direct elections of the President of the European Commission; ..
Two thirds of respondents think that the EU (instead of a national government alone), should make decisions on foreign policy. ...
...A large majority of the people for whom the EU conjures up a positive image support the further development of the EU into a federation of nation states (56% versus 27%)."

[Simonsays]

Russia has more in common with China and India right now than with the EU (look up BRICS)
and the EU hasn't let democracy or civil rights interfere with western objectives in Turkey or elsewhere. it's not on their agenda.

that said, the use of the Brexit is a way to get concessions from the EU since Thatcher. It's like the devil in the closet, you pull it out once in a while, and than you put it back in for the next time.
unless you are exceptionaly stupid.

[boatman61]

Russia has long been close to India.. even before the Brits pulled out.. and always will be.
A counterbalance in the region one could say..
2 squabbling despots in there are better than a single heel on ones neck..
Example Syria.. 5yrs now.. nothing but death and destruction.. Russia steps in.. less than 6mths and we've a truce..
Kipling's Game continues..

[Ribbit]

Originally Posted by Polux

You can pay some minor treatments but if you fall really ill you can nead interventions needing many thousands of Euros and be in no state to go to England to have them and in that case it is better to have your papers in order. I have, just in case I need serious assistance in any of the EU countries where I cruise in the summer. It is a card that you have to have passed by the UK welfare system that allows you medical assistance on EU countries.

Not true at all. My cousin, a resident in Spain (Andalucia), was found to have cancer, and could not get treatment for it in Spain. She had to come back to the UK to be able to get treatment (looks to have been successful, I am pleased to say).

This was October 2015 . . . . .

My friend in Gran Canaria fell seriously ill, was in intensive care there for several months, and the only reason he had care in Gran Canaria, was his holiday insurance covered him.

If it hadn't been for that, he'd have had to be flown home.